Its ok to wear Military Medals even if you didn't earn them.

fred8615 · 01-13-16, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

There's a fairly clear First Amendment case here, I think.

Wearing medals you didn't earn should be legal.

It doesn't mean we have to like it.

Where exactly does it say in the First Amendment that you have a right to lie? And if you do have a right to lie, how in the world do you ever charge or convict someone of perjury??? Or lying to the police (a crime in many places)???

KrazyDimondRX · 01-14-16, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Where exactly does it say in the First Amendment that you have a right to lie?

Where does it say anyone wearing a medal they did not earn is lying. Look at Cybermat47's posts on this. People in his country and mine might wear medals to respect and honour veteran relatves. No lying involved. I don't know about aussie but if you get caught wearing an undeserved "Ebay" medal over here, boy! your going to regret it.
Two totally different scenarios.
KDRX

Stealhead · 01-14-16, 01:49 AM

In the US outside of the military law(UCMJ) which applies to military members it is not illegal to wear a military medal not actually earned. There is the Stolen Valor Act which makes it illegal to make false claims of military service for personal gain. For example if a person said they where a Navy Seal during a job application when they where not.

It illegal to impersonate a military officer as well.

ikalugin · 01-14-16, 06:22 AM

I think that in certain situations it is fine to wear fake or unearned military awards. For example in movie making.

Cybermat47 · 01-14-16, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

It is illegal to impersonate a military officer as well.

Wait, so impersonating enlisted men and NCOs is legal? What numbnuts came up with that?
-----------------
Honestly, I'm shocked that wearing unearned medal for personal ego-boosting is protected by the 1st Amendment. It's not freedom of speech, it's standing on the shoulders of better people (many of whom laid down their lives) for personal gain. It's exploitation.

Stealhead · 01-14-16, 07:33 AM

It is a US federal code basically states any federal employee. So it covers many things. In this case for the purpose of committing a crime.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/912

So don't worry it covers posing as any military member for the purpose of committing a crime.

In this case officer means a repesenative of.

Platapus · 01-14-16, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Where exactly does it say in the First Amendment that you have a right to lie? And if you do have a right to lie, how in the world do you ever charge or convict someone of perjury??? Or lying to the police (a crime in many places)???

Where does it say that lying, in itself, is a criminal offense?

Lying under oath is illegal
Lying for the intent of defrauding is illegal
Lying to law enforcement officials in the course of a legal investigation is illegal

But, Lying to impress people is not illegal, despite being morally reprehensible.

From the court records

Quote:

“We are aware of no authority holding that the government may, through a criminal law, prohibit speech simply because it is knowingly factually false.”

Quote:

we presumptively protect all speech against government interference, leaving it to the government to demonstrate, either through a well-crafted statute or case-specific application, the historical basis for a compelling need to remove some speech from protection . . . for some reason other than the mere fact that it is a lie.

Our commitment to freedom of speech is never better tested then when applied to something we strongly object to.

August · 01-14-16, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

But, Lying to impress people is not illegal, despite being morally reprehensible.

Impressing people is a form of personal gain isn't it?

Stealhead · 01-15-16, 07:23 AM

If you arrested every person who lied the jails would be filled.

Where would you draw the line? Is it wrong when asked how ones day is going and the reply is positive when in fact the day is bad?

For example should lying for the personal gain of impressing or gaining friends be banned? It is morally questionable but people do it every day.

Catfish · 01-15-16, 09:38 AM

If they wore medals, all of them should have been tried, before court:

01-14-16, 06:22 AM	#4
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I think that in certain situations it is fine to wear fake or unearned military awards. For example in movie making. __________________ Grumpy as always.

01-15-16, 09:38 AM	#10
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,802 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	If they wore medals, all of them should have been tried, before court: __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

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01-14-16, 01:49 AM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	In the US outside of the military law(UCMJ) which applies to military members it is not illegal to wear a military medal not actually earned. There is the Stolen Valor Act which makes it illegal to make false claims of military service for personal gain. For example if a person said they where a Navy Seal during a job application when they where not. It illegal to impersonate a military officer as well.

01-14-16, 07:33 AM	#6
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	It is a US federal code basically states any federal employee. So it covers many things. In this case for the purpose of committing a crime. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/912 So don't worry it covers posing as any military member for the purpose of committing a crime. In this case officer means a repesenative of.

01-15-16, 07:23 AM	#9
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	If you arrested every person who lied the jails would be filled. Where would you draw the line? Is it wrong when asked how ones day is going and the reply is positive when in fact the day is bad? For example should lying for the personal gain of impressing or gaining friends be banned? It is morally questionable but people do it every day.