[REL] Run Silent, Run Deep - The Campaign

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Marshall Ney

I am really confused about what order to install. I don't do enough this kind of modding enough to be proficient. On the first page it shows; install with JSGME
in following order; TMO
RSRDC_TMO_v50x(is this 502??)
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch

Then farther down; again download with JSGME in following order;
RFB
RSRDC_RFBv15_v575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

Does this mean patch to be loaded twice?? or once at end. Also, please give complete order on right side of JSGME mod enabler.

Thanks,

MN

If I understand your question: TMO is a supermod and RFB is another supermod. Or install TMO or install RFB. Not both. TMo goes with TMO small patch plus RSRDC 502 and RSRDC 5xxx patch. Do not mix TMO with RFB.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Marshall Ney

I am really confused about what order to install. I don't do enough this kind of modding enough to be proficient. On the first page it shows; install with JSGME
in following order; TMO
RSRDC_TMO_v50x(is this 502??)
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch

Then farther down; again download with JSGME in following order;
RFB
RSRDC_RFBv15_v575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

Does this mean patch to be loaded twice?? or once at end. Also, please give complete order on right side of JSGME mod enabler.

Thanks,

MN

I don't think I'd recommend installing Trigger Maru AND Real Fleet Boat. Both are "Mega-Mods" and do many of the same things, but may do them differently. Installing both could lead to Confusing the Computer, giving you a CTD (Crash To Desktop), Locking up the Computer, or, at worst, the dreaded Blue Screen of Death!

You can choose which Mega-Mod (and associated RSRDC) to sail with, but NOT both.

Good Hunting!

LtCdr Roger Dodger USCG(R)

[CapnScurvy]

Marshall Ney, the first page in this thread can be a bit confusing to someone just quickly reading it. All the acronyms alone can be unnerving.......JSGME; RFB; TMO; RSRDC; OM; WTF!!

As Fitzcarraldo and Roger Dodger pointed out, Real Fleet Boat and Trigger Maru Overhauled are separate mods that should never be "activated" together through the Jones Soft Generic Mod Enabler. The two mods are not compatible with each other.

What is compatible with either of them is Run Silent, Run Deep Campaign, provided you choose the correct version of RSRDC for the game you play.

If your playing just the stock game......no other mods activated. RSRDC v550 is the version to use.

With a game modded with TMO 2.5.......RSRDC v502 is the version to use.

With a game modded with RFB 2.0.......RSRDC v575 is the version to use.

With all three RSRDC versions, there's an "RSRDC_Patch 1" (it's the same patch for all three) that should be added to your JSGME "activation order", just after the main RSRDC mod version you choose.

[Marshall Ney]

thanks, for the replies, I am beginning to understand some??

After, reading Fitz..& Dodger's comments I went back in and just loaded Tmov502 and Patch1. But when I launched game, it would not load to main screen(CTD). So, I loaded RSRDC_SH15_V550, and game launched and I started new career!! Seems to be working, but is real boring. Seen, heard NO ships with only a couple of planes passing. I have sailed from 1st deployment area down to Luzun Staights. I's now almost Jan 1,1940 and nothing.

I don't know if I am going to stay with this, unless someone can tell me things will pick up soon. Are there other mods compatible with these or a link that talks about compatible mods??

Again thanks guys,

MN

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Marshall Ney

thanks, for the replies, I am beginning to understand some??

After, reading Fitz..& Dodger's comments I went back in and just loaded Tmov502 and Patch1. But when I launched game, it would not load to main screen(CTD). So, I loaded RSRDC_SH15_V550, and game launched and I started new career!! Seems to be working, but is real boring. Seen, heard NO ships with only a couple of planes passing. I have sailed from 1st deployment area down to Luzun Staights. I's now almost Jan 1,1940 and nothing.

I don't know if I am going to stay with this, unless someone can tell me things will pick up soon. Are there other mods compatible with these or a link that talks about compatible mods??

Again thanks guys,

MN

I'll assume you meant Jan 1, 1942 since the war (for us) didn't start until Dec 8, 1941. You also didn't mention where your home port is, so I'll also assume you're starting your first patrol from Manila since you mentioned the Luzon Straits.

The Author of RSRDC has re-worked the 'Campaign' layers to reflect ACTUAL ship movements, and a jolly good job he has done of this IMO. So . . . if you're not seeing any targets, there aren't any around and you're in the wrong place. Unlike the Unmodded OC, RSRDC doesn't just put targets in your way, you have to be where the targets are when they go sailing by. I couldn't even count how many patrols I have been on without firing a single torpedo, and that was the way it was in RL.

This early in the war, you don't have SURFACE RADAR, so what you SEE is what you get. CLUE: Stay on the surface, even in daylight as much as possible, even though that was STRICTLY against orders (Thou shalt run submerged between dawn and dusk). My own opinion of those orders is . . . If you start seeing planes overhead, that usually means military ships are around. Air Search RADAR will pick them up before they see you. CRASH DIVE whenever your RADAR picks up ANY plane. As soon as you go under (depth ~25 feet), make an immediate 90 degree turn and continue down to Test Depth before slowing down. IF the planes spot you, they WILL drop bombs on you. If you made that turn, they will be bombing where they 'think' you may be.

ANOTHER CLUE: (If you are starting in Manila) Start over on your campaign. The Japanese invaded the Philippines very quickly after Pearl Harbor, starting with taking out our planes at Clarke Field. Within a very few days, they landed troops at Lingayen Gulf (West side of Luzon, North of Manila - ya can't miss it). Your challenge is to get set up BEFORE the Troop Ships arrive, then take out as many as possible BEFORE they start landing troops (then try to get out alive ). You'll have to be quick - you only have a couple of days before they start the invasion. Even if you miss them coming in, there are lots of targets in Lingayen Gulf for the next couple of days. Careful - its not very deep in the Gulf.

Good Hunting!

LtCdr Roger Dodger USCG(R)

[Marshall Ney]

Roger Dodger, thanks for taking the time to give me a heads up. I'll carry-on.

Given what you said about no ships near by, is this the mod??? So, it's important to pay attention to messages and then try to get to where action is said to be??That makes sense. Yes, I mis-spoke, Jan 1, 1942 is what I meant. And no, I started a Pearl; last direction for patrol was to patrol between Japan and Luzon
Straights and that's what I have been doing.

Is there something else within game play that would tell me that the mod is operational??

Again, thanks for helping a noob. I found [I]Living Silent Hunter III 2015 Edition and like it a lot, but it takes around 20 mins. to load game and mission screen; then if you screw up you have to reload; just tries my patience.

anyways, happy hunting,

MN

[Marshall Ney]

Boy did I get jolted out of the clouds. After hanging around Luzon Straits for a couple of days, I decided to head down east side of Northern Luzon Island, and about a third of the way down, the Japs found me!!! I don't know how I survived shelling from 2 destroyers, but I did. Then I proceeded to take them out plus a mine layer. After that I went and knocked out a couple of merchants the destroyers were escorting. Anyways, I finished both parts of 1st mission, and picked up a couple of medals. Looks like the mod gives the historic medal names, instead of the PC junk from vanilla.

Is there any threads that lists compatible mods that go with this one??

Thanks,

MN

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Marshall Ney

Roger Dodger, thanks for taking the time to give me a heads up. I'll carry-on.

Given what you said about no ships near by, is this the mod??? So, it's important to pay attention to messages and then try to get to where action is said to be??That makes sense. Yes, I mis-spoke, Jan 1, 1942 is what I meant. And no, I started a Pearl; last direction for patrol was to patrol between Japan and Luzon
Straights and that's what I have been doing.

Is there something else within game play that would tell me that the mod is operational??

Again, thanks for helping a noob. I found [I]Living Silent Hunter III 2015 Edition and like it a lot, but it takes around 20 mins. to load game and mission screen; then if you screw up you have to reload; just tries my patience.

anyways, happy hunting,

MN

Well, let's see 5138 air miles Honolulu to Manila @ 10 Kts = 513.8 Hours/24 = 21 DAYS to patrol area. Nope, you're gonna miss the invasion.

Starting from Manila in an S-Boat once, I missed the ship's movements, but managed to sink a couple of transports while they were anchored. Much fun! Beat feet outta there before they got their act together enough to figger out what happened. Re-fueled @ Manila during an air raid (shot down a couple of planes, too), and headed for Java.

About the only way to check if RSRD is really loaded is to look at the 'Single Missions' screen when you first load the game. The missions are really listed differently from the OC. Lack of targets when playing should tell you that it is working too. RSRD uses actual Japanese (and others) records to trace ship's movements, so its pretty accurate. The OC (Original Campaign - No Mods) generates vessels fairly close to you, so you should have no problems IF your playing the OC. V-E-R-Y unrealistic. Its a B-I-G ocean, and no RADAR early in the war is a definite disadvantage. What you SEE is what you get, around a 20 mile radius (on the surface). Your lookouts, this early in the war, are probably fairly inexperienced.

You should also use at least 512X Time Warp to 'try' to avoid boredom. Although when a plane is spotted on Air Search RADAR, the Time Warp drops to 1X, you may not have time to avoid being bombed. Always keep At Least one finger on the 'C' key when surfaced during daylight, and Time Warping.

FREE ADVICE: Try a new Campaign. Start Pre-War (That's in RSRD), Base Manila in an S-Boat! BTW, the Mark 10 Torpedoes are more reliable than the Mark 14s.

Good Hunting!
LtCdr Roger Dodger USCG(R)

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

RSRD uses actual Japanese (and others) records to trace ship's movements, so its pretty accurate. The OC (Original Campaign - No Mods) generates vessels fairly close to you, so you should have no problems IF your playing the OC. V-E-R-Y unrealistic.

Good Hunting!
LtCdr Roger Dodger USCG(R)

What's very unrealistic, playing poker with a deck of cards that is stacked exactly the way a famous game was played so all you have to do is replicate the winner's actions and haul in the cash? Or is a poker game realistic when the cards are shuffled and results are random? Which is a real game and which is a sterile reenactment?

RSRDC is the one that is V-E-R-Y unrealistic. You can sit in a shipping land and hit target after target and they just keep coming like the stupid robots they are. In the real war, after you plugged a target you didn't get any more chances until you found a new honey hole. That's because RSRDC is V-E-R-Y unrealistic.

Real war is dynamic. The enemy reacts to situations and changes tactics to accommodate. RSRDC simply reenacts the results of dynamic decision making from 70 years ago and mindlessly executes them, appropriate or inappropriate.

So, you, wise guy that you are, proceed to zip over to the precise location that the Japanese carriers launched their attacks on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1943. In the real war you would have come up empty because they wouldn't have been there. They would have detected you and gone somewhere different. In the "realistic" RSRDC world they deliver themselves conveniently into your clutches and you fill 'em full of holes.

RSRDC, while seeming to be a good idea, on careful examination, falls apart completely as a fatally flawed exercise. I like its ships. I don't like its AI. I don't like its campaign.

The SH4 1.5 game, which generates traffic randomly, and not as you describe just in your vicinity, but randomly all over the ocean, with virtual targets already present before you enter sensor range, when they are randomly assigned a position that you can detect and become actual targets, is the closest approximation to the reality of fighting a submarine that is possible.

As a real sub commander you had little knowledge of shipping lanes, historical battles (they hadn't happened yet, or had already happened and you lacked a time machine) actual odds of survival (they were much more afraid than we are playing the game), enemy ship identification and submarine reliability compared to what we have in the game. Heck, our ID Manual has every freaking ship on the Pacific Ocean! Their manual was a cruel joke.

So RSRDC takes a game which is already stacked in the sub's favor and proceeds to stack it even worse. In the process, RSRDC absolutely kills the gameplay of TMO, GFO, RFB and the stock game. At least Webster made a patch to fix a little of that for GFO. None of the others reacted at all. I think they were just worn out and couldn't fight any more.

As a player, if you want to go see the invasion of Guadalcanal then load up RSRDC and go look. You still won't see reality, just Lurker's version but the Japanese will be there and you'll be able to bust 'em up. Maybe. It's actually a lot of fun. But in the real war that would have been airplane work, not submarine work.

But as a real captain during the war, you followed orders, went where you were told, found or didn't find targets. If you worked for Christy you had very little latitude to explore on your own. Do it and you're pounding the beach with some Marines. With Lockwood you were assigned a wide area and told to seek and destroy. Lots of flexibility. But you didn't know where they were. Encounters were random from your point of view. JUST LIKE THE STOCK GAME! That's real realism. Not a robotic enactment of 70 year old dynamic decisions made during a different war. That is the very definition of "V-E-R-Y unrealistic."

Let's suppose you are playing a boxing game and your opponent, Muhammad Ali, does the exact same moves he did against Joe Frasier in Ali/Frazier 1. REALISM! Yeah, you just move in behind him, he punches the historical Frazier in front of him and you knock him out from behind or the side. He never sees you. He never reacts to you. He's a stupid robot. Just like RSRDC. Is that realistic? No. Hell no.

[granite00]

Hi RR,
I'm still new to the game and am playing just my second Pac career. I played TMO/RSRDC in the first career. I'm playing just TMO in the second. You've been playing for nearly 10 years. Is GFO the most realistic mod to play (recognizing the entire game has significant limitations that cannot be fixed)?

[Rockin Robbins]

There is no real to be had in SH4 regardless of what mod you play. If you want reality of outcome and play RFB then you have very little chance of being killed. But you know that and play very unrealistically Rambo style.

Strangely, in order for the player to play realistically the game has to be tuned to be unrealistically deadly. That is exactly what TMO does: makes you afraid you won't survive so you make similar decisions as the real submariners who were afraid for their lives.

So the cat's out of the bag. I think the most realistic way to play SH4 is TMO without RSRDC so you can't game the system. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do.

[subunit]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

There is no real to be had in SH4 regardless of what mod you play. If you want reality of outcome and play RFB then you have very little chance of being killed. But you know that and play very unrealistically Rambo style.

Strangely, in order for the player to play realistically the game has to be tuned to be unrealistically deadly. That is exactly what TMO does: makes you afraid you won't survive so you make similar decisions as the real submariners who were afraid for their lives.

So the cat's out of the bag. I think the most realistic way to play SH4 is TMO without RSRDC so you can't game the system. It's not perfect but it's the best we can do.

Why does one have very little chance of being killed in RFB?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by subunit

Why does one have very little chance of being killed in RFB?

Except for the S-boat, which is a delicate thing that can kill you (excellently done by the RFB crew) the enemy AI is detuned so that they aren't much of a menace.

You can do cool things like watch your own depth charging from periscope depth without a lot of danger. Prolonged depth changing is rare and not too accurate. Things are objectively like they were during the war but we just use our lack of terror to game the system.

That said, RFB is much more dangerous than Beery's last version. With that you could take direct hits from depth charges and be perfectly safe. That's what pushed me to TMO.

[PhilipVonWebber]

Hello Gents;
Very strange thing happened. I installed (through JSGME) OTC and my crew vanished except for two crewmen in the engine roon and one in the command room (and he only showed up for battle stations )
I've upgraded my SH4 1.4 to 1.5 on this new comp - fps and graphics are almost realistic. As with SH3 too.
Any thoughts about awol crew?

Thanks for the read.

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by PhilipVonWebber

Hello Gents;
Very strange thing happened. I installed (through JSGME) OTC and my crew vanished except for two crewmen in the engine roon and one in the command room (and he only showed up for battle stations )
I've upgraded my SH4 1.4 to 1.5 on this new comp - fps and graphics are almost realistic. As with SH3 too.
Any thoughts about awol crew?

Thanks for the read.

What supermod do you use with OTC?

There is a version for Stock, also compatible with GFO.

Please, read the detailed instructions in the OTC thread, CapnScurvy explains all with easy instructions.

Welcome aboard and best regards.

Fitzcarraldo