Did i just waste my money????

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Cant say I've ever had a problem personally,
But in this day and age we might need to start breaking our attachment to owning a game on DVD. I really don't think it will be too long before PC gaming abandons DVD distribution, optical media as a whole is in a steady decline, and retailers who specialise in it have been dropping like flies over the last decade. I reckon once they have finally established fast internet connections in all those hard to reach areas, that will be the last nail in the coffin.

And that will be the end of true indie games and the dominance of service bureaus like Steam who will dictate what games are permitted to flourish and what absurd DRM gamers must submit to if they want to play. JU-88, be careful what you wish for.

Service bureaus are nothing new. They have been around since IBM launched The Service Bureau in 1954. They entice people who want a "simple, non-technical" solution with minimal user responsibility and decision-making. "The Cloud" is just the latest incarnation. So far, every attempt to impose the service bureau model on an industry has broken down under the weight of its inherent rigidity and potential for monopolistic (or oligopolistic) exploitation of the user base. Hopefully, the computer gaming industry will not be the first to succumb.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

And that will be the end of true indie games and the dominance of service bureaus like Steam who will dictate what games are permitted to flourish and what absurd DRM gamers must submit to if they want to play. JU-88, be careful what you wish for.

Service bureaus are nothing new. They have been around since IBM launched The Service Bureau in 1954. They entice people who want a "simple, non-technical" solution with minimal user responsibility and decision-making. "The Cloud" is just the latest incarnation. So far, every attempt to impose the service bureau model on an industry has broken down under the weight of its inherent rigidity and potential for monopolistic (or oligopolistic) exploitation of the user base. Hopefully, the computer gaming industry will not be the first to succumb.

Its not what I wish for, I'm merely saying it is inevitable.
As for Digtial download being the end of Indie gaming, excuse me but say WHAT!!??
If anything the complete opposite is true, with Digital distribution we have seen an EXPLOSION of experimental indie games for the PC, because digital distribution costs the developer nothing! Cutting and distributing thousands, or even millions, of discs on the other hand... Now that's a monopoly - he with the most $$$ gets his umpteenth sequel of his triple A franchise not just a space on the shelf, but taking up the whole shelf or maybe more!
Speaking of which, digiital distribution doesn't suffer from limited shelf or ware house space, and you don't have retailers and supplier-middle men terrified of ordering niche games that might not sell, (so they will be stuck with it and out of pocket.)

Steam has a TON of indie games, that I doubt would ever have seen the light of day if it wasn't for digital distribution, either because the independent publisher couldn't bear the costs, or because it was simply refused by the high street & online retailers on the basis of being a too risky a product.
Steam might be 'picky' I don't know, but they sure can afford to be a lot less picky than those physically stocking optical media, since if it doesn't sell well, they lose nothing.

Also as far I am aware, Steam doesn't determine the DRM - if any, that's down to the Games publisher/developer. DRM can be and often is enforced on DVD games anyway.
Cloud is another story though.....
I'm more concerned about what 3d printing is going to do to manufacturing though, China better put their thinking hats on! because when that baby takes off, we could see a lot of factories shutting their doors for good!

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Its not what I wish for, I'm merely saying it is inevitable.
As for Digtial download being the end of Indie gaming, excuse me but say WHAT!!??
If anything the complete opposite is true, with Digital distribution we have seen an EXPLOSION of experimental indie games for the PC, because digital distribution costs the developer nothing! Cutting and distributing thousands, or even millions, of discs on the other hand... Now that's a monopoly - he with the most $$$ gets his umpteenth sequel of his triple A franchise not just a space on the shelf, but taking up the whole shelf or maybe more!

I beg your pardon Your point is well taken. I misinterpreted your comments about digital distribution as directed to the Steam distribution model specifically. My error entirely. Yes, the general acceptance of digital distribution does lower the cost of entry for an indie publisher. (Not that new, though. I've been playing a game that existed only in digital format from 1991 till the franchise died in 2010. Every year, an updated version was released. The game evolved enormously in 19 years, ending when the solitary dev chose to retire. The game probably had thousands of players world-wide. It would never have existed without digital distribution.)

Steam has a TON of indie games, that I doubt would ever have seen the light of day if it wasn't for digital distribution, either because the independent publisher couldn't bear the costs, or because it was simply refused by the high street & online retailers on the basis of being a too risky a product.

Steam might be 'picky' I don't know, but they sure can afford to be a lot less picky than those physically stocking optical media, since if it doesn't sell well, they lose nothing.

Perhaps, but in a market increasingly dominated by a few Steam look-alikes, each with its own base locked into its unique ecosystem, the ability of an indie to attract notice and to win customers diminishes. That's part of the Service Bureau business model.

The point of the Service Bureau model is to lock customers into their ecosystem and make using anyone else's product, whether another service bureau or an indie, expensive and unpleasant. Already, there are games that are only available through Steam-like services.

And whether they can afford to be picky or not, a corollary of the model is that it is the service bureau, not the customer, who determines which goods and services are to be offered. When coupled with the cost to leave an ecosystem, that is not a recipe for robust competition. And I would prefer to make that decision myself, not leave it to some profit-driven middleman.

Also as far I am aware, Steam doesn't determine the DRM - if any, that's down to the Games publisher/developer. DRM can be and often is enforced on DVD games anyway.

Here I definitely disagree. If what you say were true, then the same DRM that causes many players grief when modding SH345 would exist on the version downloaded from Amazon and other sites. Fact is, it does not. Just take a look at the forums here at SubSim. A sizable majority of postings asking for help installing or modding SH345 turn out to be from Steam customers. If the publishers were enforcing the DRM, you would expect that other sellers of the download games would have the same issues.

My concern about the service bureau is that it is good for the publisher and good for the middleman, while offering illusory "benefits" and hidden costs to the end user. YMMV

Cloud is another story though.....
I'm more concerned about what 3d printing is going to do to manufacturing though, China better put their thinking hats on! because when that baby takes off, we could see a lot of factories shutting their doors for good!

Amazon has already announced a 3D-printing service. You supply the descriptor file. They whack out your part and send to you. Rapid prototyping is not just a software tactic any more.

As for shutting factories, it's certainly going to impact a lot of modeling, prototyping, and custom fab shops. The mass producers, not so much, at least in the near term. It's still easier to use a 3D printer to make a die or mold, then use high-volume molding or stamping equipment for the production run. But onezie-twozie replacement parts will be popped out as needed. No need for inventory.

[Mister Six]

You guys should learn to shop around more

Got my digital copy of SH5 here, for the princely sum of £0.83p

http://www.g2play.net/category/2703/...tic-uplay-key/

uplay key, digital download, mods up and plays just fine

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Mister Six

You guys should learn to shop around more

Got my digital copy of SH5 here, for the princely sum of £0.83p

http://www.g2play.net/category/2703/...tic-uplay-key/

uplay key, digital download, mods up and plays just fine

For those of us who are unfamiliar, could you please explain what a "U-play Key" is and how it can be used to obtain a downloaded install package that will install a moddable SH5? According to the site you linked to, a "U-play Key" is all you are purchasing for your 0.83 GBP. There seems to be more to this story, and I'm sure others would appreciate more information.

[Mister Six]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

For those of us who are unfamiliar, could you please explain what a "U-play Key" is and how it can be used to obtain a downloaded install package that will install a moddable SH5? According to the site you linked to, a "U-play Key" is all you are purchasing for your 0.83 GBP. There seems to be more to this story, and I'm sure others would appreciate more information.

Well, Uplay is ubisoft's Digital Distribution Platform, much like Valve's 'Steam' and EA's 'Origin'

Purchased games are tied to individual accounts on these platforms through the use of unique keys, these keys can come with boxed retail games, or through online retail sellers.

CD Key, Steam Key, Origin Key, Uplay key, it's all the same game, just on different distribution platforms.

A DVD boxed version of SH5 requires you to install uplay, as it's the publishers choice of distribution platform. You install uplay, enter your DVD key and tie the game to your uplay account, and from then on launch the game through the uplay launcher.

I already had a uplay account and launcher installed from other ubisoft games I own, so I just bought a silent hunter 5 key from an online reseller, and activated it on my uplay account.

There are literally hundreds of online retailers selling digital keys for games on Steam, Uplay and Origin. Never buy direct from the publisher, you can nearly always find it cheaper elsewhere, and the older the game, the cheaper you can get it (that goes for Steam too)

An an example, Sniper Elite 3 just came out a month ago, it's currently £39.99 GBP to purchase through Steam, the full publishers release price.

G2play will sell you a steam key for £14.87 http://www.g2play.net/category/7468/...iii-steam-key/


Six

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Mister Six

Well, Uplay is ubisoft's Digital Distribution Platform, much like Valve's 'Steam' and EA's 'Origin'

Purchased games are tied to individual accounts on these platforms through the use of unique keys, these keys can come with boxed retail games, or through online retail sellers.

CD Key, Steam Key, Origin Key, Uplay key, it's all the same game, just on different distribution platforms.

A DVD boxed version of SH5 requires you to install uplay, as it's the publishers choice of distribution platform. You install uplay, enter your DVD key and tie the game to your uplay account, and from then on launch the game through the uplay launcher.

I already had a uplay account and launcher installed from other ubisoft games I own, so I just bought a silent hunter 5 key from an online reseller, and activated it on my uplay account.

There are literally hundreds of online retailers selling digital keys for games on Steam, Uplay and Origin. Never buy direct from the publisher, you can nearly always find it cheaper elsewhere, and the older the game, the cheaper you can get it (that goes for Steam too)

An an example, Sniper Elite 3 just came out a month ago, it's currently £39.99 GBP to purchase through Steam, the full publishers release price.

G2play will sell you a steam key for £14.87 http://www.g2play.net/category/7468/...iii-steam-key/


Six

Thanks, Mister Six. Been so long since I got SH5 that I had forgotten. But don't you still have to have a downloaded or DVD-based copy of the game install package? IIRC, U-play doesn't install the game. It's just an online DRM, yes?

[Balu0]

Originally Posted by Mister Six

You guys should learn to shop around more

Got my digital copy of SH5 here, for the princely sum of £0.83p

http://www.g2play.net/category/2703/...tic-uplay-key/

uplay key, digital download, mods up and plays just fine

What the hell it was 1 Euro here in my country, I bought one just to see if it works.

So I can confirm this is legit, you get the key, you paste it into your uplay client and you get the game. And it is a PATCHABLE ONE (1.15 version use the updater to get it to 1.2 then patch it)

[Swabbie]

I started playing 4 again after about a year off. Saw that 5 was going for ten bucks. So, went to the SubSim store and bought the game. I think I just wasted my money. I can't believe how bad 5 is. I've been sub simming since Silent Service on the C64. In my opinion. This is the worst sub sim ever.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Swabbie

I started playing 4 again after about a year off. Saw that 5 was going for ten bucks. So, went to the SubSim store and bought the game. I think I just wasted my money. I can't believe how bad 5 is. I've been sub simming since Silent Service on the C64. In my opinion. This is the worst sub sim ever.

You've been a member for four years. One would hope you would have read all the ongoing controversy before making your decision to purchase.

The bottom line is that out of the box SH5 is dreadful. Even the people who now love the game agree with that. In that light the question arises: Have you tried any of the mods yet? Much work has done in improving the game, and the improvements have been vast, and a great many people are of the opinion that SH5 is the best sub sim ever.

[Chad44]

You can buy Silent Hunter Complete for $2.50 on Gamersgate right now. It says the DRM is Tagès, so I think it's the Uplay version if you want to mod it.

[Balu0]

How to Patch the steam version of SH5:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=214687

[Lexandro]

Originally Posted by Chad44

You can buy Silent Hunter Complete for $2.50 on Gamersgate right now. It says the DRM is Tagès, so I think it's the Uplay version if you want to mod it.

Some advice from someone who knows. NEVER EVER buy a game with TAGES as the DRM, it will ruin your game even with legit titles. TAGES is a DRM system thats hooked in to different parts of the game. If at any time TAGES is not happy it will screw up the game data deliberately to ruin the game. Thats its function, not to make you put a disc in or to ensure you have the correct version. Its just there for totally f..k up the game data while your playing if it detects something it doesn't like. And if you have any kind of burning software or disc publishing it WILL stop working untill you remove said burning software. As for mods........forget about it, TAGES has in the past refused to run with any kind of mod whatsoever, and if you use a "patcher" like TDW's stuffs it will gaurantee to ruin the install.

All in all its one of the THEE most draconian DRM's there is.

[Swabbie]

So the Amazon version can be modded but the Steam and Ubisoft downloads can't.

Was thinking about finally buying the game. Glad I came to these forums before I did.

Thank you Gentlemen.