Moving thru the boat??

[hunter301]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

In a flight simulator, the player is put into the role of the aircraft's pilot. The pilot controls the aircraft's attitude and trim (particularly in a single- or two-seat aircraft). In a submarine simulator, the player is put in the role of - what? The boat commander? The dive officer? the planesman? Identification party? Torpedoman? All oif the above? I might like a subsim where the trim of the boat was not perfect (function of the expertise of the diving officer and crewmen), just as I would like an identification party that made mistakes. But to have to do all that myself? Historically, which skippers ever did that? Perhaps, unusually, in an emergency caused by an incompetent diving officer, but that would require that the diving officer be less than 100% competent and reliable. When the diving officer has occasional trim problems or porpoises the boat (possible in modded SH3 and SH5), when the navigator miscalculates a noon sun (possible in modded SH5), then I as a player will have to learn to deal with the uncertainty of relying on other humans, which is part of the job of a sub skipper. AFAIK, a WW2 sub officer did not have to qualify as planesman. Should I?

Not being a submariner (IRL) if the boat needing trimming because of taking on water in the aft compartment or some other reason wouldn't that be a command the captain would give?

[hunter301]

Before this gets to crazy (to late.) all I wanted to do was be able to move thru the boat. Once you got to those rooms such as the captains quarters complete with desk and pinup girls you could see the captain's log on the desk and go thru it. Or when visiting the engine room you could see the damage report or manipulate the crew board from there, etc...
I don't want to control every valve and feature that a sub has. It would be unrealistic in a sub. I want to be able to go to the torpedo room and see them reloading torpedos or go to the engine room and see the mechanic keeping watch over the engines, etc....

By the way if you can't go into the the captain's quarters in SH4 then why do we have a pinup girl mod in the mod section??

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by hunter301

Not being a submariner (IRL) if the boat needing trimming because of taking on water in the aft compartment or some other reason wouldn't that be a command the captain would give?

I'm not a submariner, either. My knowledge is based purely on reading - first-person accounts and contemporary training manuals. So what I have to say is fair game for anyone with first-hand experience. But, no, AFAIK, that is not an order the skipper would give.

To quote from NavPers 16160, The Fleet Type Submarine, dated June, 1946, Section 18A3: "The control room is the station of the diving officer who issues the necessary orders during a dive and directs the men at the manifolds, pumps, and diving gear in maintaining the submarine at the desired depth." 18B3: "The diving officer now observes the angle of the submarine." 18B4: "If an excessive angle on the diving planes is necessary to hold a zero bubble, the diving officer orders a readjustment of the ballast in the trim tanks until the planesmen can hold a zero bubble with a minimum use of the planes." 18B5: "The experienced diving officer will, however, recognize both conditions simultaneously, and combine the operations as dictated by his judgment. Thus he may, in a minimum time, return speed control to the commanding officer by his report, 'Final trim.' meaning 'All right over-all and all right fore and aft.'" NavPers 16160 is available online here: http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/index.htm

Gene Fluckey in "Thunder Below" describes his experience as diving officer in USSBonita , commanded by "Shorty" Nichols. In this incident, Fluckey displays his ability to trim the boat after transiting from the Panama Canal into the saltier, denser Pacific, under the eyes of the squadron commander.

Herbert Werner in Iron Coffins describes his challenge as a skipper saddled with a diving officer who had no feel for trimming the boat. He tries to give the man opportunities to learn, but finally has to replace him with a junior officer with better skills. This was KM, of course, and not USN, but the operational assignments appear to have been very similar.

Again, I admit that this is all "book-learnin'" and if someone who has actually served in the boats could contribute, I'd certainly relish it.

[ReallyDedPoet]

This was a great thread in it's day:Here

[Sniper297]

In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off. That's another argument I always lose with the train simulator casual players who want eye candy and fluff - suggest more realistic options and they have a hissy fit even after you try to explain that it could be set up as an OPTION, just like flight simulator has sliders for more or less realism in flight physics and controls. For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off. That's another argument I always lose with the train simulator casual players who want eye candy and fluff - suggest more realistic options and they have a hissy fit even after you try to explain that it could be set up as an OPTION, just like flight simulator has sliders for more or less realism in flight physics and controls. For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

You want a higher fidelity model of the boat.

I want a higher fidelity model of the boat commander's decision space.

We're not wrong. but we're not right, either. Neither are the people who want eye candy. There's a whole forum around here for people who get off on the beautiful pictures they make with SH4. They aren't wrong either.

But, if I get to choose, I'd rather have effort put into functional modeling of the crew rather than physical modeling of the boat. YMMV.

[Sniper297]

No argument here, different strokes for different folks.

I would love to have the option to walk like a first person shooter through a complete boat, and the damage control and crew screens include forward and after battery, both engine rooms and maneuvering (motor room), with the interior modeling all those compartments plus the pump room. My priorities however;
1. Ballast balance buoyancy
2. Do SOMETHING - ANYTHING - with the ADHD brain damaged crew AI (supposed to be Artificial Intelligence, in SH4 it stands for Always Incoherent) so they report important things like an escort of the convoy you're tracking suddenly turning toward you and bending on knots. The only thing those blithering idiots are programmed to report are new contacts, and they're not even smart enough to realize the "new" contact they keep reporting over and over is the same escort zigzagging in and out of visual range. It's almost not worth doing an end-around in SH4, if you're not already ahead of the convoy turn away and let them go by.
3. What you said, an SH5 style internal walk around.
4. An options screen to change default settings - radar defaults to 20 kyards and sweep instead of 8000 yards and focus (every time I go to look at the PPI scope the switch automatically changes to focus in the wrong direction), torpedoes can be set to high speed contact 20 foot depth by default so you don't have to tediously set them yourself every time (another crew job that the captain has to perform in SH4), stuff like that. "Put me on the bearing, up scope" the assistant approach officer doing the waltz with you will spin the scope to the bearing on the TDC, in game no option for that.

Lot of other wish lists after that, but your number 1 wish does come in my top 10 at number 3.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

In the game the player has to manually do a lot of things that others would be doing automatically by standing orders anyway, all I'm talking about is a simplified ballast control that you could manipulate when needed. And could be set to automatic just like map contact updates and automatic targeting on/off...For a sub simulator there could be a simple on/off and a manual override when you think the diving officer or DCA isn't doing enough or doing it fast enough.

Thanks for reminding me about this for SH5. I just figured out how to take manual control of the fore/aft diveplanes in it It's not simple to do as requires some patches to the files. Think I located all the ballast tanks also

[ETR3(SS)]

Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills. I need the ability to conduct drills so the crew will become better. The ability of the crew is determined by its experience in handling certain situations. A higher rank does not always mean that that individual is better than any other.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Just a quick thought here while I have time. Drills. I need the ability to conduct drills so the crew will become better. The ability of the crew is determined by its experience in handling certain situations. A higher rank does not always mean that that individual is better than any other.

Agreed. This is usually what skippers spent that big chunk of time between leaving and reaching their patrol area on. Having nothing to do besides keeping the time compression pumped up to it's highest level in the two weeks steaming from Pearl Harbor to Japan seems kind of a waste.