Is that a Pocket Shotgun in your Pants or are you just happy to see me?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

True enough, these little 'toys' have been around for a while now...What a joke this thing is, .410 rounds, penetration and energy transfer would be, bad.
That's an understatement.

During one of the eternal arguments between fans of 9mm and .45 ACP, Gunsight Academy founder Colonel Jeff Cooper, himself a .45 fan, quipped "In a street confrontation a .22 in your pocket is far more effective than a .45 in your bedroom drawer."

I think given the purpose for this gun it could be a good thing to have when the need arose.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

During one of the eternal arguments between fans of 9mm and .45 ACP, Gunsight Academy founder Colonel Jeff Cooper, himself a .45 fan, quipped "In a street confrontation a .22 in your pocket is far more effective than a .45 in your bedroom drawer."

I think given the purpose for this gun it could be a good thing to have when the need arose.

Most definitely...would hate to be on the receiving end.

[Feuer Frei!]

A .410 wouldn't be the first choice for self-defense.

This thing is more a novelty weapon than anything else.

Sure, it's better than nothing, 410 ammo was designed for hunting, not self-defense.

Ammo designed for long barrels but used in short barrels doesn't really gel.

I hazard a guess but this particular model has shallow rifling? If so, they are not true smoothbores, ie the shots spread out too much. Not really what you want in greater ranges.

Gimmick gun, good for a novice.

Total energy of a loadout is important, as you gun nuts know of course.

The only advantage of this thing would be the low recoil.

Edit: As Ducimus points out at close range it may be ok, ie 3 yards or nearer, which is the key number for self-defense, in relation to this model.
Anything outside of that, and a guy wearing a leather jacket coming at you from a range greater than 3 yards, (keeping in mind the scattered shot pattern) getting hit by 6 pellets, rather than 9 (from a 12-gauge) may still keep on coming. May is the word i stress, that's the issue, not a certainty.
Which then defeats the purpose o self-defense. You don't want the doubt of something that MAY stop an attacker.
A 12 or 20-gauge on the other hand? Well....

[Ducimus]

Well its not my first choice either, but as any firearms enthusiast will tell you, some guns work well for some people for varying reasons, and some don't.

[Feuer Frei!]

Haha yea, maybe if you have squirrels or rabbits invading your appartment.
Fair point.

[Ducimus]

Well, let me ask you this, what would you give someone to defend themselves with who was elderly, had frail limbs, poor eye sight, wears simple clothing, extremely recoil sensitive, and didn't have access to a shooting range to become proficient with the manual of arms for a standard semiauto handgun?

See what I mean? We are all different, with different considerations.

[Sailor Steve]

They call it a derringer, and that's what it is. Ever since Henry Deringer created the first muzzle-loading pocket pistol the misspelled "derringer" has been a generic name for a single-or-two-shot personal weapon, small enough to be carried in a jacket or pants pocket and only for last-ditch use. They have always been popular and likely always will be.

Dismiss it all you like. If you need one it's better to have it than not.

[August]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

410 ammo was designed for hunting, not self-defense.

These 410's are indeed designed for self-defense.

Delivering effective shot patterns that place all projectiles on a man-sized target at seven yards, the Critical Defense® 410 features a unique Triple Defense™ projectile stack consisting of two 35 caliber round balls topped with one non-jacketed FTX® slug. Unique to the Critical Defense 410, the 41 caliber FTX® slug actually engages the gun's rifling, and contacts the target nose-on, enabling the patented Hornady Flex Tip® technology to assist in expansion for greatly enhanced terminal performance. Each 35 caliber round ball is made of high antimony, cold swaged lead to resist deformation and provide excellent penetration. The 410 Critical Defense is loaded to 750 fps at the muzzle with 294 ft lbs of energy.

http://www.hornady.com/store/410-Critical-Defense-Ammo/

[Aktungbby]

^

[Jimbuna]

Translation required

[gi_dan2987]

Some guns are meant to kill animals, other guns are meant to kill people. But some guns are just meant to kill your wallet and serve no other purpose. Source: An avid sportsman, gun owner, and military veteran.

[August]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Translation required

With the right ammo it's not as harmless as some are making it out to be.

[Stealhead]

To me the thing about the entire caliber argument is simply put any round can kill you or very seriously injure you.Granted there is no "magic bullet" that kills no matter where it hits (that is reasonably man portable).

People say 9mm para this and .45 that 5.56mm this and .308 that. I say I'll pass on getting hit by any of them because they all very much have the potential to put me six feet under at worst and damaged for life at best if they happen to hit you in the right spot and any of the above mentioned can achieve that with a solid torso hit.


It all depends on the person anyone who has fought another man to the death hand to hand can tell you just how much damage the human body can take.I could tell you a story from Vietnam my father vs. a very hardy NVA solider but it might be a bit much for this forum.Suffice it to say that the Vietnamese took an entire magazine of M1911A1 rounds at very close range and still kept coming and it ended hand to hand.It is all relative and how strong ones adrenaline is has a factor as well some will go on from a fatal hit that would put others down in seconds just like deer some can have the heart and lungs gone and keep going for a surprising distance not mention hogs.

[gi_dan2987]

You're absolutely correct. You only die when your mind believes its dead. It's all in your head.