Obamacare

[Wolferz]

More and more news articles are bringing to light exactly what kind of Flim Flam this BS ACA is. In my estimation, it's just another back door tax being foisted on everyone. The worst part of the lie is in the name of the law. It should have been called the Unaffordable insurance tax.

To me, healthcare reform would better serve if they brought down the exorbitant fees these doctors and hospitals want to charge.

IE: My primary care physician bills my insurance at the rate of $140.00 per visit, for five minutes of work. Which equals out to $1,680.00 an hour.

My Medicare insurance only covers a small portion of that thanks to an exorbitantly high deductible.


Exactly what has this new law reformed!?
Maybe we should all just march out to the woods and die. That would fix everything.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

To me, healthcare reform would better serve if they brought down the exorbitant fees these doctors and hospitals want to charge.

Who is "they"? The government?

Just curious, how would you suggest either the federal or state government to do this? Are you really advocating giving the government the authority to tell business people how much they can charge for their services/products?

Suppose the government decided that you are being overpaid?

No. That would be a very dangerous precedent.

[Catfish]

Hey, in Germany we still pay 'taxes' for

1. The german fleet of pre 1914 - champagne is being taxed to support the german Navy; as William 2nd said "who has money for champagne can support the fleet".

2. The allied airlift to Berlin - Germany certainly had to pay for it, and so the parliament created an additional car tax to the already existing fuel tax, to finance the airlift.

We still pay for both. Taxes, once created, will never be taken back

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Catfish

We still pay for both. Taxes, once created, will never be taken back

"Taxes are never levied for the benefit of the taxed."
-Robert A. Heinlein

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hey, in Germany we still pay 'taxes' for

1. The german fleet of pre 1914 - champagne is being taxed to support the german Navy; as William 2nd said "who has money for champagne can support the fleet".

2. The allied airlift to Berlin - Germany certainly had to pay for it, and so the parliament created an additional car tax to the already existing fuel tax, to finance the airlift.

We still pay for both. Taxes, once created, will never be taken back

Not doubting what you state but how are you still paying taxes for something over one hundred years ago?

Income tax in the U.S.A. started around WWI.
It was said to only last to aid the War effort.
Once it was passed?

GFL getting it removed!

[Catfish]

Read it. Thoroughly.

http://fusion.net/leadership/story/c...nalysis-102590

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Read it. Thoroughly.

http://fusion.net/leadership/story/c...nalysis-102590

From your source:

"In fascism, the government doesn’t own the means of production, but they do control it — and that’s what’s happening with our health care programs and these reforms.”

So, you're saying it's fascism?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

In my estimation, it's just another back door tax being foisted on everyone.

From what I understand, we are subsidizing this fiasco. Which as near as i figure it means that when you boil all the fat away, that all the getto mammas', crack whore's, and Juanita's with anchor baby's will now have health insurance, and we will be paying for it. Freaking welfare state is what this is. I don't make much money, but I worked for every cent I have, and everything I own was from my own efforts. I have always earned my own way, and I have never asked anyone for anything. So the thought of me shelling out some of my money for the benefit of some lazy pieces of feces pisses me off.

All things considered the entire situation gets a mighty one fingered salute paired with a Foxtrot Uniform from me to Obama and the Democrats who foisted this crap.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

From what I understand, we are subsidizing this fiasco. Which as near as i figure it means that when you boil all the fat away, that all the getto mammas', crack whore's, and Juanita's with anchor baby's will now have health insurance, and we will be paying for it. Freaking welfare state is what this is. I don't make much money, but I worked for every cent I have, and everything I own was from my own efforts. I have always earned my own way, and I have never asked anyone for anything. So the thought of me shelling out some of my money for the benefit of some lazy pieces of feces pisses me off.

All things considered the entire situation gets a mighty one fingered salute paired with a Foxtrot Uniform from me to Obama and the Democrats who foisted this crap.

That is in part but many were already on medicaid for free. The other aspect is the folks with pre-existing conditions. There will be a huge influx of people being able to get treatment. Many of these will be highly subsidized. The only way to afford this is jack up premiums and get the healthy young enrolled....PLUS....see to it that thousands get canceled for sub par insurance as dictated by the ACA. This forces higher premiums. So yeah, you can't keep that plan you like. The fix is in. America is just starting to smell the coffee. Where are all the cheerleaders we had in the original Obamacare thread?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Where are all the cheerleaders we had in the original Obamacare thread?

I think they gave up on GT a long time ago.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think they gave up on GT a long time ago.

I think most people have given up on having a reasonable discussion in GT and honestly on the internet in general. There seems to be an overwhelming lack of reasoning and argumentative skills on the whole, while there seems to be never ending amounts of stubborn, pig-headed bantering. There seems to be almost no one left who is actually willing to consider anything that isn't what they want to hear.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

This website sums up everything wrong with GT and the internet in general, and why arguing never ends up getting anywhere nor changing anybody's mind. Ive really considered just bookmarking the website and linking it whenever someone tries to manipulate a debate in such ways, instead of me responding at all.

[Onkel Neal]

I don't know, I have discussions with people in GT and in real life and we don't agree a lot of the time. I can handle that. Some people cannot.

Where are all the cheerleaders we had in the original Obamacare thread?

Perhaps they see people throw out stuff like...
the getto mammas', crack whore's, and Juanita's with anchor baby's ...
and they think that some of the clientele on GT is not worth debating in any rational fashion.
Though as you note, those rather disparaging stereotypes were probably all already paid for under the previous system you had.

But I think the core of the issue over ACA is that most of the "cheerleaders" wanted a system like the noted "liberal" August supports, not the cop out compromise that was passed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Perhaps they see people throw out stuff like...
the getto mammas', crack whore's, and Juanita's with anchor baby's ...
and they think that some of the clientele on GT is not worth debating in any rational fashion.
Though as you note, those rather disparaging stereotypes were probably all already paid for under the previous system you had.

But I think the core of the issue over ACA is that most of the "cheerleaders" wanted a system like the noted "liberal" August supports, not the cop out compromise that was passed.

Yes, those colorfully described folks are already in the system. I believe the new influx automatically signed up for medicaid are those with preexisting conditions. I do not know what noted liberal August supports. The law may not have been a compromise if the bill was actually read before the vote. The website up and running as it should have been after 3 years and $600 million spent. The American public not lied too about being able to keep their plan. Grandfathered in as it were. The law subsequently changed that rendered the once grandfathered plans null and void. Premiums increasing and not decreasing $2500 as peddled by the President. What has been set up is a forthcoming government bailout for the ACA. The young that need to sign up will more than likely take the penalty for the first few years rather than sign up because of sticker shock. The entire system is in shambles. Yet, not one word has been spoken about reducing the cost of healthcare. We have the typical tax and spend elite handle the healthcare like anything else. Tax and spend. Throw money at the problem. Your money.