Community projects?

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Yes, I think uboat.net is the best place to start. It is accessible and straightforward. We can tackle more complex tasks later if all goes well. Again, the possibilities with a collaborative approach are almost limitless, as long as there are volunteers.

I would suggest, though, that we deliberately aim for an easily-achievable goal for the first installment of this project. That way, the project won't seem too daunting, we will have a nice sense of accomplishment after having finished the first portion, and it will allow us to check our work to see if any modifications are needed.

I agree

Originally Posted by keysersoze

EDIT: what did you mean by "magic numbers?"

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Yes, I think uboat.net is the best place to start. It is accessible and straightforward. We can tackle more complex tasks later if all goes well. Again, the possibilities with a collaborative approach are almost limitless, as long as there are volunteers.

I would suggest, though, that we deliberately aim for an easily-achievable goal for the first installment of this project. That way, the project won't seem too daunting, we will have a nice sense of accomplishment after having finished the first portion, and it will allow us to check our work to see if any modifications are needed.

I fully agree with you

Originally Posted by keysersoze

EDIT: what did you mean by "magic numbers?"

2/001/026/00/007/3/1

[keysersoze]

2/001/026/00/007/3/1 [/QUOTE]

Got it, and I agree

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by gap

Thank you guys, your help is highly appreciated!




The spreadsheet that I am currently working on, will in fact help us generating quickly the above numbers on the base of few inputs. What do you think guys? Any suggestion?

This sounds good to start. I like the idea of this spreadsheet 'cause it will keep everyones research the same. Easy to understand, and fast.
I'll be waiting for the spreadsheet.
And I agree, U-Boat.net is a very deep website with a lot to offer. It's also the one with the most staying power, it's been there quite a while.
2/001/026/00/007/3/1 This is good!

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

This sounds good to start. I like the idea of this spreadsheet 'cause it will keep everyones research the same. Easy to understand, and fast.
I'll be waiting for the spreadsheet.
And I agree, U-Boat.net is a very deep website with a lot to offer. It's also the one with the most staying power, it's been there quite a while.

Hi Dogfish,

If you want a preview of the spreadsheets, you can click on the link in post #9, then on the "U-boat Positions" document. Don't start recording any U-boat positions just yet, as I think gap probably wants to make some alterations to the format. The other spreadsheet ("U-boat Special Operations") is something I have been putting together for a few weeks. Feel free to contribute to it if you have the inclination or the time.

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

Hi Dogfish,

If you want a preview of the spreadsheets, you can click on the link in post #9, then on the "U-boat Positions" document. Don't start recording any U-boat positions just yet, as I think gap probably wants to make some alterations to the format. The other spreadsheet ("U-boat Special Operations") is something I have been putting together for a few weeks. Feel free to contribute to it if you have the inclination or the time.

Thanks, I'm copying everything I can find, I'll check #9. I was also concerned that at some point we may "bump heads". We might need a moderator sometime to make sure we're not working on the same things. This would have to be someone who knows exactly what research needs we have at any givin time. Or has this been mentioned yet?

[Targor Avelany]

sorry for lack of replies on my part - I got over-busy-over-excited yesterday with my IXb project (my little baby fired torps and sunk its first ship in a test mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

I will be coming back to this and helping you guys out in the shortest time!

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

sorry for lack of replies on my part - I got over-busy-over-excited yesterday with my IXb project (my little baby fired torps and sunk its first ship in a test mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

I will be coming back to this and helping you guys out in the shortest time!

Any screenshots that you could share with us?

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Thanks, I'm copying everything I can find, I'll check #9.

Like I said, no need to start copying coordinates just yet; let's wait for the go-ahead from gap first. If you're referring to the U-boat missions document, I'm thinking about starting a post for that with more specific suggestions about how people can help if they want.

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

I was also concerned that at some point we may "bump heads". We might need a moderator sometime to make sure we're not working on the same things. This would have to be someone who knows exactly what research needs we have at any givin time. Or has this been mentioned yet?

Yes, we should talk about organization and delegation. I think we should defer to gap on the U-boat positions project, since it was his idea to begin with. As other project ideas are put forward, we can discuss moderation and organization at that time.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

sorry for lack of replies on my part - I got over-busy-over-excited yesterday with my IXb project (my little baby fired torps and sunk its first ship in a test mission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

I will be coming back to this and helping you guys out in the shortest time!

Awesome Targor! It sounds like you're making excellent progress on that IX

[Grizwald]

I am extremely excited to hear the IX project is progressing, I know allot of us are! Best of luck with it Targor!

[Kromus]

Originally Posted by Grizwald

I am extremely excited to hear the IX project is progressing, I know allot of us are! Best of luck with it Targor!

Same here, it seems there are many more ppl are hoping for first playable (plus new detailed model) type IX so fingers crossed and hoping all goes well with your project Targor

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by Kromus

Same here, it seems there are many more ppl are hoping for first playable (plus new detailed model) type IX so fingers crossed and hoping all goes well with your project Targor

Thank you for the support, guys.

I probably should start a thread on this project, as it seems I keep stealing space in other threads (i.e. here, gr2 thread, etc).

Just a note: not playable yet (working on AI unit) and not new detailed model (that is WAAAAYYY OUT to go, I just purchased VERY DETAILED plans for U-505, so will be able to start working on that, but still a very long time).

So, keep this thread on topic, as this community project is, in my opinion, is a try-out for this community to start looking at making a mega-mod in a year or two.

[markdenny]

Would there be a chance of getting tomi's type 2 u boat from sh4 with all the interior to work on sh5 that would be fantastic aswell really looking forward to a type 9 though will you be doing the inside aswell or using the type7 interior ?

[Targor Avelany]

guys, as I just said - let's not derail this thread, as I believe it is a very good thread.
I'll start a new thread tomorrow and will keep it updated and answer all the questions

[gap]

Hi guys, sorry for keeping silent in the last days.

Against my promises, yesterday I didn't get time to finish my spreadsheet, but I worked on it mentally and I have come to rethink some features which will increase the information it will be able to process, by keeping its compiling as easy and fast as possible.

My ideas, if you accept them, are relative to the first and the last flag in the "magic number" that I have discussed the day before yesterday:

2/001/026/00/007/3/1

The first "flag", let's call it "doctrine" will still dictate the probability of an U-boat being considered to be dispatched for supporting our attack (if this first test is passed, TDW's patch should check if the unit got enough torpedoes and fuel by comparing 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th number). I added a new level though:

0 - unit unavailable;
1 - low dispatching chance, only if it the sub is at close range from our current position;
2 - medium chance, close range;
3 - medium chance, long range;
4 - high chance, medium range.

What changes is the way my calculator will generate the above numbers for each date/position, without need by you to set them arbitrarily (see below). As for the last flag, the purple one, I have decided to make it into a referece for generating U-boat to BdU and BdU to U-boat reports. This is the list of the possible messages that have come to my mind:

0 - none
1 - B.dU: U-boat outbound
2 - Proceeding to operation area
3 - Report current patrol area
4 - Joining wolfpack
5 - Leaving wolfpack
6 - Mission accomplished, resuming normal patrol
7 - Mission aborted, resuming normal patrol
8 - Report single contact detected
9 - Report convoy detected
10 - Report successful attack
11 - Report unsuccessful attack
12 - Warships/taskforce detected – maintaining radio silence
13 - Aircraft sighted – maintaining radio silence
14 - Survived warship attack, continuing patrol
15 - Survived air attack, continuing patrol
16 - Survived combined attack, continuing patrol
17 - B.d.U: U-boat missing in action
18 - Proceeding to main route
19 - Ending patrol/returning to base
20 - B.d.U: order to head for base
21 - Malfunctioning: heading base for repairs
22 - Suffered damage by warship attack: heading to base for repairs
23 - Suffered damage by air attack: heading to base for repairs
24 - Suffered damage by combined attack: heading to base for repairs
25 - B.d.U: U-boat inbound

Besides increasing immersion, the above messages, played with a random chance (possibly affected by the doctrine flag), would give us precious information on the current position and state of our possible helpers. Again, you won't need to set the above flags manually. All you need to set for each date is a 'current activity' cell. The possible tags selectable through a drop-down menu that I thought of so far, are:

1. Sailing to patrol area: this is meant as start of "normal" tonnage patrols; you should set this tag from when the boat leaved her base to when she started her actual patrol.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 3
   Corresponding message: IF current cell IS first day of patrol: 1 ELSE: 0
   
   
2. Sailing to/from operation area: as above, but used for when the boat had to carry out special duties which required stealth and/or a timely accomplishment/coordination with other units, or more in general when the boat was sailing under strict B.d.U. orders. Unlike the previous tag, it doesn't necessarily need to be set from when the boat had left her base: an U-boat could have start a normal patrol and then, while still at sea, headed to operation area for accomplishing her special duties. As the name suggests, it can also be used for when an U-boat had to move from her special operation area to a "safer" location. NOTE: short special missions, starting and ending at base, can start with a 'sailing to/from operation area' tag, but they shoul end with one of the 'bound to base'.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
   Corresponding message: IF current cell IS first day of patrol: 1 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'carrying out special ops' OR 'mission aborted': 18 ELSE IF previous cell IS NOT 'sailing to/from operation area': 2 ELSE: 0
   
   
3. Normal patrol: this is the default U-boat activity (if no tag is set, this one will be used), used for tonnage patrols, and it should normally follow the 'sailing to patrol area' tag. Setting the moment that an U-boat ended its passage to patrol area and actually started its patrol might be a bit arbitrary. You can use as reference the moment that the given boat started circling in enemy waters, or that the distance between consecutive position logs became comparatively shorter.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 3
   Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'normal patrol': 3 ELSE: 0
   
   
4. War patrol (strict orders): this is similar to the previous tag, but it applies to when the boat had to track down/hunt a specific target (esp. military units), when it sneaked into enemy ports (eg Prien's attack at Scapa Flow) or when a precise order of battles was involved (eg Operation Weserubung). Wol fpack operations not included. It normally , but not necessarily follows the 'sailing to/from operation area'tag
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 4
   Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'war patrol (strict orders)': 3 ELSE: 0
   
   
5. Wolf pack hunting: quite self-explanatory. Set it from when the boat joined an historical wolf pack to when it left it.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 4
   Corresponding message: IF previous cell is IS 'sailing to patrol area' OR 'sailing to/from operation area' OR 'normal patrol' OR 'carrying out special ops': 4 ELSE IF next cell IS 'normal patrol' OR 'war patrol (strict orders)' OR 'sailing to/from operation area' OR 'carrying out special ops' OR 'bound to base': 5 ELSE: 0
   
   
6. Carrying out special ops: any type of special operation which didn't involve hunting enemy ships: mine laying, escorting friendly units, reckoning missions, spy dropping, equipment transports, short transfers from base to base, etc. Weather reporting duties and refits at sea not included (you should tag them as 'normal patrol'instead).
   
   Corresponding doctrine: 0
   Corresponding message: IF next cell IS 'sailing to/from operation area': 6 ELSE: 0
   
   
7. Mission aborted: set this tag at the end of a 'carrying out special ops'set of cells, if you know that for some reason the mission had to be aborted.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
   Corresponding message: 7
   
   
8. Shadowing single unit: set this tag if you know that on that day an U-boat had reported a single contact or, arbitrarily, one day before the date a ship was historically attacked by the given U-boat.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 2
   Corresponding message: 8
   
   
9. Shadowing convoy: same as above, for convoys.
   
   Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 2
   Corresponding message: 9
   
   
10. Attacking contact: set this tag for historical U-boat attacks on enemy ships, whether successful or not.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
    Corresponding message: IF sunk/damaged ships > 0: 10 ELSE: 11
    
    
11. Avoiding enemy warships: tag used for when an U-boat, undetected, spotted enemy ASW patrols or task forces, having to avoid their surveillance. Not applied to convoy escorts.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'avoiding enemy warships': 12 ELSE: 0
    
    
12. Avoiding enemy planes: same as above, but for airplanes.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'avoiding enemy planes': 13 ELSE: 0
    
    
13. Facing warship attack: same as 'avoiding enemy warships', but the U-boat was detected and had to adopt evasive maneuvers.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF next cell IS NOT 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'U-boat destroyed': 14 ELSE: 0
    
    
14. Facing air attack: same as above, but for airplanes.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF next cell IS NOT 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'U-boat destroyed': 15 ELSE: 0
    
    
15. Facing combined attack: same as above, but the U-boat was attacked by both warships and airplanes.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF next cell IS NOT 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'U-boat destroyed': 16 ELSE: 0
    
    
16. U-boat destroyed: self explanatory
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: 17
    
    
17. Bound to base: set this tag from when the boat started her return passage to when it entered port. See my comments about the 'normal patrol'tag, on how to estimate when this tag should start.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 3
    Corresponding message: IF current cell IS last day of patrol: 25 ELSE IF previous cell IS NOT 'bound to base' NOR 'bound to base by BdU order' NOR 'bound to base for repairs': 19 ELSE:0
    
    
18. Bound to base by BdU order: similar to the previous tag, but the U-boat is ordered by B.d.U. to return urgently to base .
    
    Corresponding doctrine: IF previous cell IS 'avoiding enemy warship' OR 'avoiding enemy planes' OR 'facing warship attack' OR 'facing air attack' OR 'facing combined attack': 0 ELSE: 1
    Corresponding message: IF current cell IS last day of patrol: 25 ELSE IF previous cell IS NOT 'bound to base' NOR 'bound to base by BdU order' NOR 'bound to base for repairs': 20 ELSE:0
    
    
19. Bound to base for repairs: similar to the previous tag, but the boat had to anticipate her return to base, due to technical problems or to damage suffered during an enemy attack.
    
    Corresponding doctrine: 0
    Corresponding message: IF previous cell IS NOT 'bound to base' NOR 'bound to base by BdU order' NOR 'bound to base for repairs' NOR 'facing warship attack' NOR 'facing air attack' NOR 'facing combined attack': 21 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'facing warship attack': 22 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'facing air attack': 23 ELSE IF previous cell IS 'facing combined attack': 24 ELSE IF current cell IS last day of patrol: 25 ELSE:0

As you can see from my pseudo code, all the tags/flag system is context sensitive, so to allow the maximum information with as few inputs as possible. After entering the required data, the spreadsheet will generate automatically some rows that you will copy/paste into keysersoze's google document file.

Lastly, I have implemented a cool feature for showing historical U-boat's routes on the SH5 map, and marking selected points on it. Useful for checking the correctness of the coordinates reported by uboat.net, and for better understanding what was going on during each patrol.



Any suggestion?