Why no Kaibokans?

Flaskegaard · 01-22-13, 01:50 PM

More experimenting with the Kaibokan Escorts (EvartsDE). I went into the files and tweeked the AI hydrophones and sonar to as sensitive as possible, then set the crew ratings to 4. Now when I play the scenario, they pick me up almost immediately and come charging over. But get this, I hear NO pinging of their sonar on my hull. They now find and depth charge me, but as they are closing, no sonar pinging. I put generic Japanese destroyers of all kinds in their place and they ping me almost all the way in. I have to adjust my crash dive times with the Japanese destroyers because they have 30+ speeds compared to the Kaibokan/Evarts DE speed of 19. The Minekaze destroyers with their 38 knot speeds are on me like a rat on a cheeto! I'm beginning to think there is something about the Kaibokan Escorts being reflagged American ships that is hardwired into the game. I've surfaced my submarine right in front of American and allied ships and destroyers, and they pay me no mind. Anyone know of a way to get the sonar pinging sound for the Kaibokan Escorts/Evarts DE to be heard? It probably has something to do with a game file that I haven't found yet. I think a Kaibokan has to be made from scratch, and not just a reflagged American ship that looks like one. For anyone who is better at that kinda stuff, here is a link to see what an actual Kaibokan looks like: www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,25065.0.html Mabye someone who is good at creating ships for the game can create a generic Kaibokan from the drawings and models shown in this link. Good Luck!

ColonelSandersLite · 01-22-13, 09:05 PM

This isn't what you think it is.

The destroyer ai can only use one sensor at a time. Either hydrophones or pinging, not both. Of course, the ai, bieng what it is, also appears to be able to instantly switch between the two but whatever.

The point is that the AI will never ping if you up the hydrophone values too much because it will determine that the hydrophones have the better fix under all circumstances.

Friendly DDS never ping either because they psychically know that you're a friendly. This reminds me of something that I personally haven't tried, but would be interested in any annectdotal results anyone has. If I recall correctly, if you sink a friendly ship, you get marked as rouge for something like 24 hours. I wonder if the friendly destroyers will magically know to start pinging you then?

razark · 01-22-13, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

If I recall correctly, if you sink a friendly ship, you get marked as rouge for something like 24 hours. I wonder if the friendly destroyers will magically know to start pinging you then?

I doubt it. I've sunk friendly ships many times in the training missions, and the PT boats never seem to care. They keep running around as if everything was perfectly normal.

Flaskegaard · 01-22-13, 10:21 PM

Ok, I didn't know that. Good advise. I'll go back and "turn down" the hydrophones and "turn up" the active sonar, then test it with the Kaibokan Escorts and Japanese DD's. We'll see what happens. Stay tuned...

Armistead · 01-23-13, 02:05 PM

What type sonar does your Kaibokan have? You may be onto something using older TMO if it's based off the Evarts class. I think the Evarts used the Type 144 sonar, although the game may use a system close to that. The Jap sonar for the Kaibokan was Type 93, that progressed early war.
If you don't have Jap sonar on your Kai, it won't pick up. Again, TMO now uses a Jap platform for the Kai.

Flaskegaard · 01-23-13, 04:49 PM

I'm using the TMO for SH4 1.4. Here is the link to it: http://silenthunter.filefront.com/fi...aru_176;106067
I only use 1.4 because I have no desire to purchase or add the 1.5 U-boat add on. I get my U-boat fix by playing SH3. The above TMO link for 1.4 has the KAIBOKAN ESCORT in it, which is just a re-flagged US Evarts DE. I have compared the active and passive sonar (hydrophones) in the COKaibokan.SNS file and it looks just like the sensors on the Japanese DD/DE/CO .SNS files, probably just a cut and paste. As you have read above, I found out the Kaibokan Escorts (Evarts DE) did not ping me. I suspected it had something to do with the fact that in the game hardwire files, it's still being recognized as a friendly US DE and not programed to ping a friendly submarine. I copy/pasted the DE Evarts files from the SEA and ROSTER files and pasted them to a folder outside the SH4 files, then deleted them from the SH4 files. I thought this would force the game to recognize the Kaibokan Escort as a generic Japanese ship. When I went back to the scenarios where i added Kaibokan Escorts, they were missing! When I pasted the Evarts files back in the game files, the Kaibokans reappeared. So that to me, is proof the SH4 hardwired files still recognize the Evarts ship as a friendly US ship, regardless of what flag is flying from it's mast.

Armistead · 01-23-13, 05:02 PM

I believe you're right, can't remember exactly, but I don't think code will allow the sonar switch and believe that's why later versions of TMO and RSRD switched the Kai to the Jap Type C platform to resolve the issue.

If you want it to work, DL TMO 2.5 and copy all the Kai files out and make a mod for 1.4.

01-22-13, 01:50 PM	#1
Flaskegaard Medic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 159 Downloads: 888 Uploads: 0	More experimenting with the Kaibokan Escorts (EvartsDE). I went into the files and tweeked the AI hydrophones and sonar to as sensitive as possible, then set the crew ratings to 4. Now when I play the scenario, they pick me up almost immediately and come charging over. But get this, I hear NO pinging of their sonar on my hull. They now find and depth charge me, but as they are closing, no sonar pinging. I put generic Japanese destroyers of all kinds in their place and they ping me almost all the way in. I have to adjust my crash dive times with the Japanese destroyers because they have 30+ speeds compared to the Kaibokan/Evarts DE speed of 19. The Minekaze destroyers with their 38 knot speeds are on me like a rat on a cheeto! I'm beginning to think there is something about the Kaibokan Escorts being reflagged American ships that is hardwired into the game. I've surfaced my submarine right in front of American and allied ships and destroyers, and they pay me no mind. Anyone know of a way to get the sonar pinging sound for the Kaibokan Escorts/Evarts DE to be heard? It probably has something to do with a game file that I haven't found yet. I think a Kaibokan has to be made from scratch, and not just a reflagged American ship that looks like one. For anyone who is better at that kinda stuff, here is a link to see what an actual Kaibokan looks like: www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,25065.0.html Mabye someone who is good at creating ships for the game can create a generic Kaibokan from the drawings and models shown in this link. Good Luck! Last edited by Flaskegaard; 01-22-13 at 07:07 PM.

01-22-13, 09:05 PM	#2
ColonelSandersLite Captain Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 481 Downloads: 74 Uploads: 3	This isn't what you think it is. The destroyer ai can only use one sensor at a time. Either hydrophones or pinging, not both. Of course, the ai, bieng what it is, also appears to be able to instantly switch between the two but whatever. The point is that the AI will never ping if you up the hydrophone values too much because it will determine that the hydrophones have the better fix under all circumstances. Friendly DDS never ping either because they psychically know that you're a friendly. This reminds me of something that I personally haven't tried, but would be interested in any annectdotal results anyone has. If I recall correctly, if you sink a friendly ship, you get marked as rouge for something like 24 hours. I wonder if the friendly destroyers will magically know to start pinging you then? __________________ My SH4 LP

01-23-13, 02:05 PM	#5
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	What type sonar does your Kaibokan have? You may be onto something using older TMO if it's based off the Evarts class. I think the Evarts used the Type 144 sonar, although the game may use a system close to that. The Jap sonar for the Kaibokan was Type 93, that progressed early war. If you don't have Jap sonar on your Kai, it won't pick up. Again, TMO now uses a Jap platform for the Kai. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it. Last edited by Armistead; 01-23-13 at 02:25 PM.

01-23-13, 05:02 PM	#7
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I believe you're right, can't remember exactly, but I don't think code will allow the sonar switch and believe that's why later versions of TMO and RSRD switched the Kai to the Jap Type C platform to resolve the issue. If you want it to work, DL TMO 2.5 and copy all the Kai files out and make a mod for 1.4. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

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01-22-13, 10:21 PM	#4
Flaskegaard Medic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 159 Downloads: 888 Uploads: 0	Ok, I didn't know that. Good advise. I'll go back and "turn down" the hydrophones and "turn up" the active sonar, then test it with the Kaibokan Escorts and Japanese DD's. We'll see what happens. Stay tuned...

01-23-13, 04:49 PM	#6
Flaskegaard Medic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 159 Downloads: 888 Uploads: 0	I'm using the TMO for SH4 1.4. Here is the link to it: http://silenthunter.filefront.com/fi...aru_176;106067 I only use 1.4 because I have no desire to purchase or add the 1.5 U-boat add on. I get my U-boat fix by playing SH3. The above TMO link for 1.4 has the KAIBOKAN ESCORT in it, which is just a re-flagged US Evarts DE. I have compared the active and passive sonar (hydrophones) in the COKaibokan.SNS file and it looks just like the sensors on the Japanese DD/DE/CO .SNS files, probably just a cut and paste. As you have read above, I found out the Kaibokan Escorts (Evarts DE) did not ping me. I suspected it had something to do with the fact that in the game hardwire files, it's still being recognized as a friendly US DE and not programed to ping a friendly submarine. I copy/pasted the DE Evarts files from the SEA and ROSTER files and pasted them to a folder outside the SH4 files, then deleted them from the SH4 files. I thought this would force the game to recognize the Kaibokan Escort as a generic Japanese ship. When I went back to the scenarios where i added Kaibokan Escorts, they were missing! When I pasted the Evarts files back in the game files, the Kaibokans reappeared. So that to me, is proof the SH4 hardwired files still recognize the Evarts ship as a friendly US ship, regardless of what flag is flying from it's mast.