China fake parts 'used in US military equipment'

[Ducimus]

I make no apologies for my love of country, and firm belief that the things we use should be made here.

EDIT: By the way, the M9, while an italian design is made in the US, so you can remove the picture of the Beretta 92fs.

[Bilge_Rat]

Harrier II also, British design and partially built in the UK.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Harrier II also, British design and partially built in the UK.

Good one...the Harrier is the only plane designed in another country that the US have flown IIRC.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Good one...the Harrier is the only plane designed in another country that the US have flown IIRC.

Err, T-45 Goshawk - British, C-27 - Italian, C-41 - Spain, T-6 Texan designed on the Pilatus PC9 - Switzerland, TG-10 (glider for training) - Czech Republic, DA-40 - Austrian, Twin Otter - Canada.

Admittedly none of those feature highly when you think of US military aircraft, but nonetheless.


Edit: I admit that even with my almost encyclopaedic knowledge I had to turn to wiki for some.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Err, T-45 Goshawk - British, C-27 - Italian, C-41 - Spain, T-6 Texan designed on the Pilatus PC9 - Switzerland, TG-10 (glider for training) - Czech Republic, DA-40 - Austrian, Twin Otter - Canada.

Admittedly none of those feature highly when you think of US military aircraft, but nonetheless.


Edit: I admit that even with my almost encyclopaedic knowledge I had to turn to wiki for some.

There's also the English Electric/Martin B-57 Canberra, as well as about twelve billion different French, British and other aircraft designs in and after World War I...

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

There's also the English Electric/Martin B-57 Canberra, as well as about twelve billion different French, British and other aircraft designs in and after World War I...

I was just going through those in service - please tell me you've still got operational Canberras, please!

[CaptainMattJ.]

Agreed. Im sick of extremely low quality "goods" from China. Id much rather pay a little extra for something that was built by a skilled labor workforce with higher standardization thats going to last me than some cheap low quality item thats going to break down on me earlier.

The chinese can still sell their low quality items to poorer nations. Im sure they need it. Why should we have to continue investing in China, when the Chinese are getting more and more aggressive by the minute. The only problem with pulling industry back to the United States and/or 1st world countries, is that corporations will start price gouging again because they now have to pay MINIMUM WAGE at the LEAST to their workers and start treating them decently (although id bet theyd just hire illegals to do the work anyway). The benefits of low-intervention capitalism are never ending, arent they?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

I was just going through those in service - please tell me you've still got operational Canberras, please!

That doesn't narrow it down a lot Herr B, those old workhorses only stopped working a few years ago! Not bad for an aircraft who had its first flight in the closing months of the 1940s! I think the only other aircraft who can make that kind of claim now is the B-52.

EDIT: I stand corrected, apparently the legendary Bear has also been going since the fifties, as has the C-130 and KC-135

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I make no apologies for my love of country, and firm belief that the things we use should be made here.

EDIT: By the way, the M9, while an italian design is made in the US, so you can remove the picture of the Beretta 92fs.

I will not because the parent company is Italian and therefore the capital goes to the Italian owners.Also some of the parts are still made outside the US.

What does love of your country have anything to do with it? I love my country yet do not share your opinion on this matter.I am no fan of globalization but international trade and international exchange of ideas and weapons among your allies is really a good thing not bad and the US benefits far more from selling of gear to others how many nations fly F-16s and AH-64s,SH-60s,C-130s? Plenty we buy relatively inexpensive small arms they buy very expensive aircraft it is a good trade off.

A good military will rise to the challenge of any supply issue hell in the Marines they always joke about the quality of most gear in WWII they came up with genius ways to solve logistical and parts problems.In my job in the Air Force we where always low on funds and the brass would tell us do not order a new part make the old one work take two broken machines and make one working one and we did it murphy's law nothing goes according to plan plan for failures plan for things to go wrong find a way to solve the problem that was the mentality in my units. Remember everything that you use was made by the lowest bidding contractor regardless of where it came from.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I will not because the parent company is Italian and therefore the capital goes to the Italian owners.Also some of the parts are still made outside the US.

My M9 says MADE IN THE USA. That's good enough for me.

What does love of your country have anything to do with it?

Because I hate having our jobs and industry exported overseas. I believe in American Pride and American Craftsmanship, and I believe it needs to return. I believe in America first, in all things. I also believe that the US military is a projection of our nation, and should represent our nation in all things. Our industry should be supporting and outfitting it, not a industry of a foreign nation. If a large conflict were to ever happen again, how the hell are we going to equip our country when we've outsourced the industry to china, belglium or where ever?

I love my country yet do not share your opinion on this matter.

Well hoo raa for you.

I am no fan of globalization but

The "but" just canceled out the words preceding it. So you are a fan of globalzation. Well, again, Hoo raaah for you.
Here's your flag, go fly it this memorial day.



EDIT:
Now that i've calmed down a little, though i still make no apologies,

Stealhead, i seriously doubt you will meet many individuals who have a stronger sense of nationalism then I. And yes I know fanatical nationalism is one word away from being a form of evil unto itself. However, China, is not home. Europe is not home. The ONLY thing worth supporting, fighting, defending, or getting upset over in this world, is home. Home is the only thing that matters. Everything else is a bunch of crock.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Well hoo raa for you.

Why insult me like that?I did not insult your love of country why have that attitude because I do not share your opinion?



I am sorry but it is a massive contradiction to say that you dislike globalism (which is not the same thing as international trade by any means http://www.blurtit.com/q571834.html) the Beretta is made in the US true but its parent company is not American.You say you love things made by Americans yet you own a gun made by a foreign company that happens to have a factory in the US.This is like saying I only buy American but I drive a Toyota,Honda,Hyundai of which components are made in other nations and the company itself is not American owned.Why not own a Colt M1911 or a Springfield M1911 those are made by Americans and are American companies.Why ware you using a computer where was it made?

I am just saying you clearly are not truly practicing what you preach by even buying one thing not made in the US and not fully owned by a US company.

As I said globalization and international trade are not the same thing one has been occurring since the dawn of nations and is not harmful if done with in reason.The other is a much newer concept and is harmful to all involved.


I do not follow the consume everything I see crap either I am frugal (though I admit that my PC desk is a bit cluttered We really do not have a whole lot of consumery crap lying around)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frugality

And my flag looks like this thank you very much (oh wait your right you can see my daughters Japanese stickers I am being sarcastic here )






And the next large conflict I hope that never happens because it will be a nuclear war and we have plenty of warheads.A WWII style conflict is a thing of the past there is a reason that they have all been "small scale" since then in fact we are to afraid to really fight hands free sometimes because of the fear of it escalating.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Why insult me like that?

Because you coping a smart ass attitude with me, so i coped an attitude right back. If you don't like it, then don't don't piss in someones direction and not expect to get pissed on back.

I did not insult your love of country why have that attitude because I do not share your opinion?

1. You were copping a smart ass attitude with me. Ok, fine, i can spit in your face too.
2.)This subject is a hotbutton with me. Amazingly, I could give less then a **** about the usual political left or wright wing drama.

You say you love things made by Americans yet you own a gun made by a foreign company that happens to have a factory in the US.

Not everyone can afford to feed a 1911.

This is like saying I only buy American but I drive a Toyota,Honda,Hyundai of which components are made in other nations and the company itself is not American owned.

I drive a Ford. One of the last years where most of it was made here. You can kindly kiss my ass.

Why not own a Colt M1911 or a Springfield M1911 those are made by Americans and are American companies.

Well if you can afford to spend 100 dollars on 250 rounds of 45 ACP, instead of 65 dollars for 250 rounds 9mm every weekend, then good for you. If i could afford the ammo, id have a colt 1911.

Why ware you using a computer where was it made?

You know as well as i do, in many things WE NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. I am unaware of any American made computers, or TV's, etc.


Ill stop reading there, i'm done with this subject. In the future, don't cope a smart ass atittude with me on this particular subject or we're going to be butting heads A LOT.

EDIT:
And don't even deny you copped a tude. You could have just said, "duci, your wrong, such and such and so and so are foreign made, etc etc yada yada." And i would have been fine with that. Hell i may have even said, "yeah you got a point i guees".

But nooooooo, you feel so strongly about it, that you went the extra mile to google image search picture to prove your point. Yeah ive been in enough message board arguments to know when someones trying to go for the jugular or rub salt in a wound. Done it plenty of times myself. Then your choice of words later on compounded on that, and that really set me off when i was trying to be civil up until that point.

[Jimbuna]

Attitudes and opinions are often open to each individuals sole perception but any insults are open to the moderators perception/interpretation to deal with.

If we are going to disagree can we please do it in a civil and respectful manner without running the risk of violating the forum rules.

I thank all in advance for their cooperation.

[Skybird]

I forsee the day when the daisy-cutter will be called rice-picker instead.