upgraded Oscar II SSGN

[CaptainHaplo]

The only thing suprising about this is that its taken this long to happen. However, given the struggles of the Russian navy (along with its CIS counterparts) its not a big suprise it has taken forever to make this move.

Bottom line, they are taking a guided missile sub and making it into a....

cruise missile sub

The difference is that instead of carrying long range ASM's (ASCM), its going to carry SSM's / LACM's (at least in part). This simply gives the boat the ability to project force on land. This is not nearly the change its made out to be.

Our forces shifted more when we took three Ohio class boats and made them TLAM/TASM launch platforms.

To saturate a missile defense site, you need a lot of incoming missiles. Your standard cruise missile warhead is NOT that large - regardless of type. The only way they are going to do enough damage to make a "missile shield" system go down is to hit a fair number of sites in concert. Or use nuke warheads. Neither option makes sense.

If these boats ever get used, my bet would be out of the med or even Caspian Sea (if the depth allows) and hitting targetted strongpoints against groupls like Chechen rebels.

To use them to suppress a missile defense shield just doesn't wash given the likely capabilities.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Some Delta IIIs are still around as are all the Delta IVs. Alfas are retired, A few Victors and most of the Serras are arounds. The Yasen/Graney is still on sea trials. Compared to the Virgina its frikkin old. It was sitting in the shipyard for a decade so its not exactly cutting edge. Charlies are retired. They have one Lada operational, they have some upgraded Kilo in the works, and they got the Sarov class special projects boat.

Ah so the Oscars are the only SSGNs they have. It'd be interesting to see just what the Russian Navys aims are with their subs, be it to use them as force projection or brown water work in the Med and Caspian Sea.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

The difference is that instead of carrying long range ASM's (ASCM), its going to carry SSM's / LACM's (at least in part). This simply gives the boat the ability to project force on land. This is not nearly the change its made out to be.

Our forces shifted more when we took three Ohio class boats and made them TLAM/TASM launch platforms.

To saturate a missile defense site, you need a lot of incoming missiles. Your standard cruise missile warhead is NOT that large - regardless of type. The only way they are going to do enough damage to make a "missile shield" system go down is to hit a fair number of sites in concert. Or use nuke warheads. Neither option makes sense.

If these boats ever get used, my bet would be out of the med or even Caspian Sea (if the depth allows) and hitting targetted strongpoints against groupls like Chechen rebels.

To use them to suppress a missile defense shield just doesn't wash given the likely capabilities.

- Just a few points, they mentioned that this "Caliber" Missile system has a range of 1.4 km.... is that me just reading the article wrong or...?

- I do agree that they will probably be used in operations in areas like Chechnya or Dagestan or even South Ossetia and Georgia. Given the fact that these states have nothing akin to Naval forces it'd make sense to assume that if this new Belgorod was to be used as a SpecOps mothership, it'd probably be used in these areas as well where their opponents have no hope of detecting and even prosecuting the target.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Ah so the Oscars are the only SSGNs they have. It'd be interesting to see just what the Russian Navys aims are with their subs, be it to use them as force projection or brown water work in the Med and Caspian Sea.

The Yasen class has a VLS on the sides of the sail for SLCMs making it about as capable as a SSGN.

For the Caspian I doubt they will deploy submarines, they are however building some Buyan class corvettes.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The Yasen class has a VLS on the sides of the sail for SLCMs making it about as capable as a SSGN.

Similar in capability to LAis and Virginias (in that respect)?

What munitions do the Russians have that compare to VLS launched TLAMs?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Similar in capability to LAis and Virginias (in that respect)?

What munitions do the Russians have that compare to VLS launched TLAMs?

I guess the 3M-54 Klub would be the closest?

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I guess the 3M-54 Klub would be the closest?

Going by a quick wikipedia search the 3M-54 system seems a little superior on paper to the Tomahawk, especially the E variant.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Going by a quick wikipedia search the 3M-54 system seems a little superior on paper to the Tomahawk, especially the E variant.

That is the anti-ship variant (one of them). It does have that nasty terminal stage but all variants lack the range of the Tomahawk.