Major oil deposits in Israel

[MH]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

My understanding is that previous Jewish state was defeated and conquered by Roman Republic in 63 BC. Its successor Roman Empire made its best to destroy anything left of Judea in 1st and 2nd centuries anno domini.

Depending how you want to count there wasn't Jewish state in around 1800-2000 years (rounded numbers), next being modern Israel from 1948. After the Roman time it have been just part of various empires or countries.

Please correct me if I'm wrong somewhere (I'm not perfect) and tell me how Jewish people have more valid claim to Palestine (one name among others) than people now referred to as Palestinians?

Here we go again....
There wasn't Jewish state for 2000 years blah blah blah....Still there are Jewish people.
From my perspective there is no difference between 2000 years and 20 years
Jews had been hunted all over Europe including modern "civilised" history.
Return to land of Israel was always Jewish dream which seriously began with mostly secular Zionist movement.

Do palestinians deserve their own state?
Facts on the ground are as such that Jews and Palestinians need to compromise.
Question is what is the nature of compromise and if compromise will end the conflict.
Abu mazen talk about settlements because it sounds right for his cause.
At the same time PA official put out statement that Palestinian state must be Jews free while they argue about returning millions of Palestinian refugees into Israel.
Thing is that when you ask politically involved Palestinian about peace process he will tell you that two state solution is just a temporary step toward whole Palestine.
Creating Palestinian state just to win some sympathy of a Fin or Swed is the easy part question is if this will end the conflict.
Question is what will happen when Abu Mazen is gone and West bank will become terrorist habitat for continuation of struggle against Zionist.
Will UN back Israelis killing women and children when missiles from west bank fall on Tel Aviv?

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by MH

Here we go again....
There wasn't Jewish state for 2000 years blah blah blah....Still there are Jewish people.
From my perspective there is no difference between 2000 years and 20 years
Jews had been hunted all over Europe including modern "civilised" history.
Return to land of Israel was always Jewish dream which seriously began with mostly secular Zionist movement.

Thank you for your answer and opinion.

Do palestinians deserve their own state?
Facts on the ground are as such that Jews and Palestinians need to compromise.
Question is what is the nature of compromise and if compromise will end the conflict.

I don't support one state solution, because I don't see any hope of peace with it. I support too state option as bad alternative which may or may not bring peace. What I would like to know from you is that how serious Israel really is about peace? Also how declaring Jerusalem as undividable capital of Israel helps negotiations?

Abu mazen talk about settlements because it sounds right for his cause.
At the same time PA official put out statement that Palestinian state must be Jews free while they argue about returning millions of Palestinian refugees into Israel.

As I said earlier, I'm not perfect. I don't know every thing and that was reason to my question in first place. Btw I didn't know about Jew free requirement although that is not really surprising and I strongly disagree with idea of Palestinian refugees returning to Israel if they get their own country.

Thing is that when you ask politically involved Palestinian about peace process he will tell you that two state solution is just a temporary step toward whole Palestine.

Link please? I had never hear this kind of claim.

Creating Palestinian state just to win some sympathy of a Fin or Swed is the easy part question is if this will end the conflict.
Question is what will happen when Abu Mazen is gone and West bank will become terrorist habitat for continuation of struggle against Zionist.

Valid concern and I don't have answer to that question.

Will UN back Israelis killing women and children when missiles from west bank fall on Tel Aviv?

Do you imply that deaths of women and children during your country's responses to terrorist attacks is intentional instead of accidental?!

August is at it again
Hey august why not take your own advice and stop trolling, once again you add nothing to the topic but just do your drive-by trolling again and again.

If i don't and most likely will not agree with you and...try to take your view apart then let it be....its not that your world will crumble around you will it?

Not in the slightest, but unfortunately the policies you support are pretty much guaranteed to ensure your world will.

Link please? I had never hear this kind of claim.

That is fairly common, though vital words are missing from what MH wrote, then again if the words were included then the statement he wrote would have no impact.

Do you imply that deaths of women and children during your country's responses to terrorist attacks is intentional instead of accidental?!

Did you notice that it made no sense?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Link please? I had never hear this kind of claim.

this article is about a poll where Palestinians claim that: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...state-1.325793

note: the poll above is made by a pro-Israeli organization, especially in emotional biased topics like this, it is exteremely important to check out who makes a poll and - if possible - the exact questions, as little changes in the questions can make enormous differences; do you want Pepsi?, do you want Coke?, do you want Pepsi or Coke? do you want a Pepsi if you can't have a Coke?

Also take a look at these polls: most Palestinians want a two-state-solution (from AP)

and this from a pro-Palestinian organization: 70 percent of the Palestinians want a one-state-solution - together with 75% of Palestinians who deny Israel's right to exist

IF all those surveys are correct, one can come to the come to the conclusion, that a two-state-solution is seen as temporary, or more blunt: first the Pepsi, then the Coke

[MH]

Originally Posted by Penguin

this article is about a poll where Palestinians claim that: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...state-1.325793

note: the poll above is made by a pro-Israeli organization, especially in emotional biased topics like this, it is exteremely important to check out who makes a poll and - if possible - the exact questions, as little changes in the questions can make enormous differences; do you want Pepsi?, do you want Coke?, do you want Pepsi or Coke? do you want a Pepsi if you can't have a Coke?

Also take a look at these polls: most Palestinians want a two-state-solution (from AP)

and this from a pro-Palestinian organization: 70 percent of the Palestinians want a one-state-solution - together with 75% of Palestinians who deny Israel's right to exist

IF all those surveys are correct, one can come to the come to the conclusion, that a two-state-solution is seen as temporary, or more blunt: first the Pepsi, then the Coke

Thanks for the links because i had none.
My view was based on some observations and real life chit chats which may be problematic in Internet discussions.

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

I don't support one state solution, because I don't see any hope of peace with it. I support too state option as bad alternative which may or may not bring peace. What I would like to know from you is that how serious Israel really is about peace? Also how declaring Jerusalem as undividable capital of Israel helps negotiations?

Eastern Jerusalem had been offered to Palestinians when Ehud Barak was PM and by other previous governments.
When precondition to peace talks is stopping construction in Gilo neighborhood or Har'Homa and Male'Adumim there is nothing to talk about.
Those are whole Jewish parts of Jerusalem and its like demanding freeze of constructions in Tel-Aviv.
Totally nuts....again it looks great...Jews are building again.
I would like someone to point out to all the illegal settlements that are dismantled inside west bank by IDF and Police.

That's again -ground reality from my perspective.
Israelis did not ask for all the wars and its small price for arabs to pay for peace.
Historically they never had regard for human life...they start war then lose then UN votes as nothing happens-what do they have to lose?
1967 borders as precondition are out of question.

From my perspective(i'm quite leftist i guess) i don't mind giving Palestinian populated parts of Jerusalem to PA.
Question is if this will ensure peace and stability or simply cause every idiot with 50mm mortal to be able to shell city centre.
Oh...you would have to run a poll with Israeli Arabs there...do they really want to be part of PA?
You just might be surprised.

Do you imply that deaths of women and children during your country's responses to terrorist attacks is intentional instead of accidental?!

No.. but its unavoidable.
The tactics used by terrorists ensures this since it further damages view about Israel in public opinion around the world.
Operation "cast lead" and goldstone report is good recent example.
It took long time for goldstone to conclude that he might be wrong but the damage was done.
Israelis are baby killers anyway.
The absurd..Tzipi Livni who is in opposition from left to current government was charged with war crimes and could not enter UK.
If i remember just last month the charges had been dismissed.
Simply put it the UN and international law created atmosphere for terrorism to thrive.
its a win or nothing to lose situation for them...all they need is to manage it well.