John Paul II beatified in Vatican ceremony

[Jimbuna]

The biggest negative factor is that he was in charge during the period of some of the most devastating child sex revelations.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

The biggest negative factor is that he was in charge during the period of some of the most devastating child sex revelations.

Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.

Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.

IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.

Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.

IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.

I agree with every single word written here. Well said.

[Armistead]

Geesh, another saint to pray to, another mass sell of saint prayer ornaments in the works..

[Egan]

I was supposed to be going to Rome this weekend until we realised this was going on. Going in a fortnight instead when it's hopefully a bit quieter. even if we could have gotten a hotel room it would have been something like 4 times the normal price.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Egan

I was supposed to be going to Rome this weekend until we realised this was going on. Going in a fortnight instead when it's hopefully a bit quieter. even if we could have gotten a hotel room it would have been something like 4 times the normal price.

I wish you-all, good luck with your trip, and hope you have a good time .... maybe there's a chance to be beatified, despite everything

[Jimbuna]

Rome isn't cheap any time in my experience but it would probably be similar to trying to get a hotel room in London during the day of the royal wedding.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

I agree with every single word written here. Well said.

Thanks for the kind words.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Thanks for the kind words.

But you are good, no doubt about it

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Vendor

But you are good, no doubt about it

Very kind of you, thank you my friend.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Very kind of you, thank you my friend.

You are welcome,

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.

Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.

IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.

I don't agree with that, A saint is supposed to be somebody who does great things, It's hard to believe he didn't know about these offenses. If he would have done the opposite and stopped these acts, then yes, he deserves Sainthood...but...nothing was done, the church went so far as to move offenders out of jurisdiction to protect them.

I'm sorry..I just can't see why someone who had to power to stop this, but did nothing deserves to be a saint.

[Fish In The Water]

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps you misunderstood as I never commented on his meriting sainthood. Matter of fact I suggested his legacy was tarnished by the fact he didn't act strongly enough to reform in the wake of sexual abuse.

Not really sure where the disagreement is here...

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps you misunderstood as I never commented on his meriting sainthood. Matter of fact I suggested his legacy was tarnished by the fact he didn't act strongly enough to reform in the wake of sexual abuse.

Not really sure where the disagreement is here...

because I don't think anyone who knows of the molestation of children, but doesn't act would Ever be considered a saint in gods eyes. A true saint would have done as much as he can if they knew about it. The pope had enough power to stop it, even if it cost him his power a true saint would have done everything he could.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

because I don't think anyone who knows of the molestation of children, but doesn't act would Ever be considered a saint in gods eyes. A true saint would have done as much as he can if they knew about it. The pope had enough power to stop it, even if it cost him his power a true saint would have done everything he could.

Fair enough but where did I say he should be a saint?