Ever destroy a ship with all hands?

[Gargamel]

Yes, it does happen. Sometimes when it shouldn't too. Ie, that passenger/cargo takes 3 days to sink, yet SHC still lists all hands as lost. But when you hit the Hood right in her magazine and she goes down in 15 seconds, Almost everybody makes it off. SHC just randomizes that number i think.

[Sailor Steve]

I've used Commander's Writable Log function to change it to suit the circumstances. If I sink a ship in calm water and it takes twenty minutes to sink, I roll a die. On a 1-5 that number of crew were killed in the actual explosion. If it's a 6 then all survived.

[desirableroasted]

It is totally, absurdly random.

1) Merchant explodes like New Year's Eve with just an impact badly aimed. Cargo: lumber. 75 of 77 crew survive.

2) Passenger/cargo. Takes 3 days to go down after two torpedoes and finishing deck guns. Cargo: mail. 3 survivors.

Yeah. 'nother rum, Bertha.

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

It is totally, absurdly random.

1) Merchant explodes like New Year's Eve with just an impact badly aimed. Cargo: lumber. 75 of 77 crew survive.

2) Passenger/cargo. Takes 3 days to go down after two torpedoes and finishing deck guns. Cargo: mail. 3 survivors.

Yeah. 'nother rum, Bertha.

I agree with 1) but not so sure of 2). Shouldn't the location of the sinking be taken into account? If you sunk the passenger/cargo in the mid-Atlantic many miles from the nearest land, then the chances of survival would be reduced. Also the lifeboats may have been damaged forcing survivors into the sea also reducing survivability. There are many factors such as the state of emergency provisions in the lifeboats or lack of water that can influence the number that actually survive a sinking, even if they actually got off the ship in one piece.

Nemo

[Jimbuna]

Old game engine I'm afraid....randomisation can be good in one instance then not so good in another.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Captain Nemo

I agree with 1) but not so sure of 2). Shouldn't the location of the sinking be taken into account? If you sunk the passenger/cargo in the mid-Atlantic many miles from the nearest land, then the chances of survival would be reduced. Also the lifeboats may have been damaged forcing survivors into the sea also reducing survivability. There are many factors such as the state of emergency provisions in the lifeboats or lack of water that can influence the number that actually survive a sinking, even if they actually got off the ship in one piece.

Nemo

Definitely true. If you were sunk in the Western Approaches you were very likely to get picked up due to frequent Allied patrols. On the other hand, getting sunk outside of the major shipping lanes was often a death sentence. Regardless of how much time you had to abandon ship.

The average medium-sized merchant or tanker had a crew of between 35 and 60. The average fatality rate for ships lost on the North Atlantic was about 9 men killed per ship lost. As a rough estimate, most sinkings fell into predictable categories:

No casualties (Slow sinking, buoyant cargo, nearby rescue vessels, etc)
1-5 casualties (Usually a few men in the engine room or near the impact point killed)
50%-75% casualties (Fast sinking, bad weather, hazardous cargo, many days adrift, etc)
100% casualties (Ammo, fuel, iron ore, & other very dangerous cargoes, midocean sinkings, etc)

While researching this feature with JSCones I asked if it would be possible to factor in these casualty trends but unfortunately it was not. I understand; all in all, SH3Commander has many amazing (and much more important) features.

If there is enough interest and I get permission, I could fiddle with the program and try to replace numerical casualties with percentages...

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

If there is enough interest and I get permission, I could fiddle with the program and try to replace numerical casualties with percentages...

I don't thik that would be a need, but I think what would be doable would be to compare the sinking location, your casualty groups, weather (via date, ie winter, summer, etc) and cargo.

A frieghter with lumber sinking in AM5x in June would have a much higher survival rate than a warship getting sunk in AL7x in winter.

[Mouftic]

Yeah, and normally frigates would have a high death rate because of the size of the ship containaing so much explosives, and even worst if the ship sank and the depth charges were not set to safe mode.

But definately some area were worst than other. Would'nt have not liked being sunk in the North Atlantic during winter time. But I guess in the middle pacific would be better if some ships were around.

I had a small taste of isolation when we were where performing a boarding in the Pacific and the Zodiac's engine broke. The ships kept going in front of us until we lost visual contact and we were in rough seas. It's kind of a sucky feeling to say the least. Could not imagine doing it in a wooden boat in the middle of winter in the North Atlantic.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

While researching this feature with JSCones I asked if it would be possible to factor in these casualty trends but unfortunately it was not. I understand; all in all, SH3Commander has many amazing (and much more important) features.

If there is enough interest and I get permission, I could fiddle with the program and try to replace numerical casualties with percentages...

Probably not worth tinkering with a very, very good Mod.

I think at best you would end up with (typical crew for ship type) * (multiplier based on location, cargo, sea state) = crew loss. Since SH3 Commander randomizes the cargo and cannot know the sea state at the time of sinking, you'd just be adding a another layer of randomization.

That might "smooth" the results out some, but it is all eye candy in the end -- all generated post-patrol. I do chuckle a little when I learn that a merchant that exploded so spectacularly was only carrying mail, but by the next patrol, I cannot remember which one it was.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

It is totally, absurdly random.

I'm guessing the developers didn't see this as an integral part of the simulation so they essentially took a pass. Nice as it would have been, if they devoted the necessary time to every last detail we'd probably still be waiting for the release...

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

I'm guessing the developers didn't see this as an integral part of the simulation so they essentially took a pass. Nice as it would have been, if they devoted the necessary time to every last detail we'd probably still be waiting for the release...

Is the "crew lost" thing even part of the game itself? I thought that was something that only got added by Commander when you update your personnel file and logs there after the patrol is over. And Commander has no way of knowing the exact circumstances of a ship's destruction, only that you sank it. It works with as much information as the game gives it... and I doubt the developers could have foreseen a stand-alone program that would incorporate real ship names and data and add them to the logbook after the fact.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

...and I doubt the developers could have foreseen a stand-alone program that would incorporate real ship names and data and add them to the logbook after the fact.

And I was just wondering myself why JScones couldn't have added that extra detail rather than randomize it. You're absolutely right. What Commander does has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself in that regard - it generates all the details after the patrol is finished. The only way to fix it is what I described, which is to change the log to suit the circumstances yourself.

Thanks for the reminder, Frau.

[Mouftic]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Is the "crew lost" thing even part of the game itself? I thought that was something that only got added by Commander when you update your personnel file and logs there after the patrol is over. And Commander has no way of knowing the exact circumstances of a ship's destruction, only that you sank it. It works with as much information as the game gives it... and I doubt the developers could have foreseen a stand-alone program that would incorporate real ship names and data and add them to the logbook after the fact.

Yeah, that perfectly right.