Union Law in Wisconsin Blocked by Judge

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Really? Your faith in a judge that IGNORED state law and refused to order school teachers back to work from an illegal strike is stunning.

and why is it illegal exactly? or is it just because you say so?

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

and why is it illegal exactly? or is it just because you say so?

Don't know about Wisconsin but here in Washington State strikes by public employees are prohibited by statute. A legal nicety the Teacher's Union consistently ignores every year.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

and why is it illegal exactly? or is it just because you say so?

Dude, REALLY?

The LAW is what makes it illegal for public sector employees in Wisconsin to strike. This isn't exactly classified information.

You're reminding me of a kid who's being told something he doesn't want to hear and just plugs his ears, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH". Are there any facts that you wish to contribute or are you more inclined to just assume everyone opposing your ideology just must be wrong?

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Dude, REALLY?

The LAW is what makes it illegal for public sector employees in Wisconsin to strike. This isn't exactly classified information.

You're reminding me of a kid who's being told something he doesn't want to hear and just plugs his ears, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH". Are there any facts that you wish to contribute or are you more inclined to just assume everyone opposing your ideology just must be wrong?

well not that i won't believe you but i wanna see the law that says that first...I did a search and couldn't find anything.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

well not that i won't believe you but i wanna see the law that says that first...I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Wisconsin State Statute 111.70.

And seriously - during the "sick out" every major media outlet pointed that out, because they were explaining as to why the teachers tried the "sick out" technique rather than a strike.

I'm shocked you missed it, unless you weren't interested in such facts...

[Aramike]

Actually, it's not illegal. You cannot be sent to jail or prison or arrested for striking in Wisconsin if you are a public worker. It's not a crime. You can only be discharged from your duties.

Yes it IS illegal.

There are plenty of things that are illegal but not criminal, and this is one of them. That's Lawyer 101. Perhaps you should brush up on the basics.

(Odd you didn't know that considering that practically the entire illegal immigrant debate's legal basis is the fact that an illegal immigrant, by being here, is not committing a crime.)

Furthermore, you're cherry picking the open meetings law. I'll just be patient and let the upcoming rulings explain specifically why you're wrong, as you're clearly choosing to ignore other points on the books ... which I've already presented.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Yes it IS illegal.

There are plenty of things that are illegal but not criminal, and this is one of them. That's Lawyer 101. Perhaps you should brush up on the basics.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-...11_AB%2011.pdf

No, it is not. You can only be discharged from your duties if you are a public worker and go on a strike (that is, fail to report to work for three days straight and/or show a clear dereliction in your job's tasks which have been presented to you). It is not a crime, and you cannot be sent to jail or prison or even be arrested for it... you do know what a crime is, don't you? I guess not.

To use an excerpt from your earlier post:

You're reminding me of a kid who's being told something he doesn't want to hear and just plugs his ears, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH". Are there any facts that you wish to contribute or are you more inclined to just assume everyone opposing your ideology just must be wrong?

Originally Posted by Aramike

Furthermore, you're cherry picking the open meetings law.

Do tell how. I merely explained how Judge Sumi was correct in citing this portion of the OML and was also correct in her verdict that the state senate had violated it by not providing adequate notice as they are required to... and that, furthermore, it does not qualify for an exemption. Nothing more or less.

Originally Posted by Aramike

I'll just be patient and let the upcoming rulings explain specifically why you're wrong, as you're clearly choosing to ignore other points on the books ... which I've already presented.

By that, you mean you'll just ignore my points and the legitimate legal aspects of this case and continue to spout that atrocious rhetoric you call "points". You have posted 8 times in this thread, yet have presented no legal argument for your side and a counterargument against Judge Sumi, whereas I have taken the time and put forth the effort to do so for you in order to explain the legal background behind this case and how there are indeed issues to be had with how this bill was passed, both of which with regards to the OML (proving why it was, moreoever, illegal in the first place with regards to the notice).

By all means, do so. I'll more than gladly oblige you in the coming weeks.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-...11_AB%2011.pdf

No, it is not. You can only be discharged from your duties if you are a public worker and go on a strike (that is, fail to report to work for three days straight and/or show a clear dereliction in your job's tasks which have been presented to you). It is not a crime, and you cannot be sent to jail or prison or even be arrested for it... you do know what a crime is, don't you? I guess not.

To use an excerpt from your earlier post:

You're reminding me of a kid who's being told something he doesn't want to hear and just plugs his ears, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH". Are there any facts that you wish to contribute or are you more inclined to just assume everyone opposing your ideology just must be wrong?

No, YOU don't know what a crime is. You should consult an attorney.

All things that are illegal are not crimes.

For instance, parking illegally in a handicapped zone is NOT a crime. Dude, this is basic stuff. It IS illegal, it IS punishable, but it is NOT a criminal violation.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

and why is it illegal exactly? or is it just because you say so?

Just because he says so.

The only thing illegal here was the passage of the bill.

Originally Posted by Aramike

I just noticed this:Are you kidding?

What makes you think that a conservative Supreme Court is going to overturn a law when the senate rules are explicit, AND they have written that legislature procedure is determined by the body?

Under the Wisconsin Open Meetings Law, which I believe is the one you're trying to drum up here and use for your own argument (at least, it's the one that Judge Sumi used in her restraining order's provisions), all meetings conducted by "governmental bodies" are required to have 24 hours notice given in advance (according to Statute 19.84). In this case, only a two hour notice was given, well below the requirement. Government bodies are, for the record, defined under the OML as:

The definition of “governmental body” includes a “state or local agency, board, commission, committee,
council, department or public body corporate and politic created by constitution, statute, ordinance, rule or
order[.]” Wis. Stat. § 19.82(1). This definition is broad enough to include virtually any collective governmental
entity, regardless of what it is labeled. It is important to note that a governmental body is defined primarily in
terms of the manner in which it is created, rather than in terms of the type of authority it possesses. Purely
advisory bodies are therefore subject to the law, even though they do not possess final decision making power, as
long as they are created by constitution, statute, ordinance, rule, or order.

More precisely, the OML applies to the state's legislature, including the senate, assembly, and any committees or subunits of those precise bodies (according to Statute 19.87) anytime and every time they have a meeting (according to Statute 19.83). There are no exemptions to be had with this case, the only ones currently in existence being applicable to deliberations with regards to judicial or quasi-judicial trials or hearings before the respective body, the purchasing of public properties, investing of public funds, unemployment compensation and worker's compensation (both cases of which require all employer members or employees to be excluded for this to apply), and the location of burial sites; additionally, exemptions exist for considerations with regards to dismissals, demotions, licensing, and discipline of public employees or person holding authority/power within a public board, commission, investigation committee, etc.; employment, promotion, compensation, or performance evaluation data holds jurisdiction and/or responsibility; probation, parole, crime detection and prevention sessions; all other cases where financial, medical, social, personal histories, disciplinary data, preliminary consideration, confidentiality, ethics, conferences with legal consultants, etc. are factors with regards to protecting the integrity and ensuring the unmolested reputation of any and all persons/businesses discussed within such data (all this is under Statute 19.85).

Oh, and considerations are also made to financial information relating to the support by a person, other than an authority figure, of a nonprofit corporation operating the Olympic Ice Training Center in your own native Milwaukee... in case you wanted to know that little detail, as well...

The point being that they clearly violated the OML's notice provision and do not qualify under any of the exemptions listed under the very same law. Judge Sumi was right to call them out on this, and that's how simple it is. Any negativity otherwise stems merely from wishful thinking and a personal desire to curb the unions of Wisconsin. The language of the OML is clear, as you can see for yourself here:

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dls/OMPR/...ance_Guide.pdf
http://www.wisfoic.org/an-openmeetingslaw.html

Originally Posted by Aramike

Dude, REALLY?

The LAW is what makes it illegal for public sector employees in Wisconsin to strike. This isn't exactly classified information.

Actually, it's not illegal. You cannot be sent to jail or prison or arrested for striking in Wisconsin if you are a public worker. It's not a crime. You can only be discharged from your duties.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-...11_AB%2011.pdf

p.16, i.3

Originally Posted by gimpy117

well not that i won't believe you but i wanna see the law that says that first...I did a search and couldn't find anything.

You won't find anything, because it isn't illegal lol.

Though I find it surprising that so many people here who coo and bellow on about freedom and rights and how both are being trampled on (when something as simple as the issue of gun rights comes into the picture) have had, evidently, a sudden change of heart here...