[REL] Merchant Fleet Mod for Silent Hunter 3

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Gryffon300

I've had a reasonable hunt through the original and SS's August .cfg lists. The old list had a class designation, "KMSSHogIsland", with 160 ship names listed, including, of course, the namesake vessel, 'SS Hog Island'. On the other hand, the new SS list contains a listing for 'KMSSHogIsland' (slightly smaller at 135 names, but mostly identical, except, strangely, that it DOES NOT include the SS Hog Island for which the class was presumably named!? )

That's because there was no SS Hog Island. The ships were called that for the Hog Island shipyard, where they were built.
http://www.usmm.org/hogislanders.html

Also, 180 ships were ordered, but only 122 were built. I have 135 because some of them changed hands during the war, such as Coahoma County going to the British in 1941 and becoming Empire Hawk. In that case I list both names.

But, the new SS cfg list ALSO includes, of course, the M10A list, (38 ships) with apparently no ship names in common with the new HogIsland class list, (Chickasaw & Chickasaw City get close, though). So, cringing slightly & wringing my hands in the best Dickensian immitation that I can muster as I say this, it would appear to my untutored eye that the two Class Lists in the new SS cfg are NOT interchangeable and shold BOTH be included in the SHIII/Data/Sea/englishnames.cfg file. ("M10A=Medium Merchant" & "Hog Islander=Hog Islander", or, alternatively, "Hog Islander=Medium Merchant"?)

No, they are not interchangeable. You have no idea of the thousands of hours I've spent on this. There are more than eleven thousand names currently, and I have looked at pictures and read the history of every single one of them. I have a working list of every class, which includes the actual tonnage of the ship and the country it belonged to, plus specific notes as to how closely it fits the model of the class I assigned it to. IABL's Merchant Fleet Mod has been a godsend to me, as I previously had so many ships assigned to a class just because it was close in tonnage, and looks had to be ignored.

I still have many that appear in the SH3C list, but in my own list I have notes that say things like "Conversion. No one knows what it looks like". I also have a huge number of ships that are assigned strictly by tonnage because I can't find a surviving photograph anywhere. And I have several that I have assigned to special categories that don't appear in-game because I'm still waiting for someone to make one.

And just where has the SS Hog Island got to, eh? Eh? Don't tell me The Hog caught religion and became the Hoosier!

Okay, I won't.

I see where whole lists were re-designated (in the Header for e.g. LSS=KSS

LSS is the lighted version for GWX. It made no sense to make a separate list of names for a handful of neutrals that you're not supposed to sink anyway.

or OTMST2 becomes GenericMerchantsAndTankers),

OTMST2 is the original stock T2, which was one of only three tanker classes in the game. Then IABL did T13A, which was not only a much better model but specifically American. I thought of Tying OTMST2 to T13A, but that meant that every time you sank an OTMST2 it would get an American T2 name, but since it was a stock ship it might be assigned any country, and it would be even worse in 1939, 1940 and 1941, when you could sink one and there was not chance it could be American. So I temporarily assigned it to the Generic list just so I could guarantee it would never get an American name. And there it sits, until I come up with some European ships that actually look like it or figure out how to get rid of it altogether (which would be my preference).

Of course this will cause problems for me in the future, as my original goal was to get rid of the Generic list altogether. When SH3C was released there were 3500 names on the list. Now there are 671.

some lists thus got wiped, others got added to or ships shuffled into or out of lists to and from existing lists, but one anomaly I don' get. The ships in the replaced KSS list seem to have vanished. I did a scan for the SS Bonifacio & SS Ciltvaria & couldn't spot them. Assume these 16 ships no longer listed?

Funny you should notice that particular list. Good job!

KSS has a listed GRT of 2325. I have a list of ten ships I took off the list because they are all in the 3500-tons range, and have them set aside with a note to myself (one of a great many) to find a new place for them. I just haven't got around to it yet. When I first started doing this everything was based on tonnage, and I've had to make a lot of changes over the years.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve's list

I NEED TO MOVE ALL OF THESE! AND MOVE OTHERS IN!!!
Bonifacio 3566
Ciltvaira (Latvia) 3779
Danio 3536?
Empire Commerce 3751
Empire Merchant 3457
Frances Dawson 3724
Katingo Hajipatera 3661
Kilissi 3723
Riogrande (Ar) 3564?
Stalingrad (Ru) 3559?

Similarly, the ATug list has gone AWOL (but I did not scan as carefully for them, so they may simply have been ingested by other classes).

That was a list of armed tugboats compiled by Observer for the original list. I keep meaning to double-check all the names to find out where else I can put them, and I keep not quite getting back to them.

The NPL_KDF Class list (previously with 7 ships listed) now stands vacant of ship names. This is the only time this occurs, so seemed to be an anomoly. Delete?

That was one of a series of German ships made by AOTD-Madmax. When they were placed into GWX I had some Allied names that fit the descriptions of that one and the others. The GWX team made the decision to keep them purely German in the game, so I couldn't use them. I plan to someday go through my German lists, but it's a low priority because you're not supposed to sink them anyway.

Historically, were there ever any names given to S-Class subs?

I don't know anything about that, as I've never touched any warships. That was Bigboywooly's area.

Just as a note of personal interest, I now live near, and visit, the Algonquin National Park. Interesting to spot TWO ships - LTR SS Algonquin & KSSJ SS Algonquins. Would both ships have been contemporaneous, or would one have been named after the first was no longer in service/sunk?

Both are possible. There are many cases of a new ship being given the name of a recently sunk or retired ship. There are also many cases of ships of different nations having the same name, sometimes as many as four at the same time.

The first one I found on my master index is Caledonia.

SS Caledonia - small Swedish freighter - 1268 tons - S03B
MV Caledonia - Norwegian motor tanker - 9892 tons - T16B
USS Caledonia - American attack transport based on the C1 model - AK01A (I don't currently have the displacement)

[edit] Going back and rereading I realize I didn't directly address your question.

SS Algonquin - British passenger/cargo - 7229 tons - not an exact match for LTR but kinda-sorta similar. It's the closest I could get to the actual model.

SS Algonquin Park - Canadian freighter - 7130 tons - one of the 'Fort/Ocean/Park' series - Canadian built equivalents of the Liberty Ship, but with a split superstructure - M35B was made specifically for this type of ship, which encompasses several classes built in Canada and the US to British specs. The British-built 'Empire' ships are of course this model as well.

SS Algonquins - Canadian freighter - 2100 tons - I don't have a picture of this one so it is placed in KSSJ strictly based on tonnage.

Can I come out from under the desk now?

Only if I can take your place there.

[Gryffon300]

Thanks hugely for taking the time to answer so comprehensively, SS. I hope a whole bunch of people read your reply to gain some appreciation of the labour of love that this shipnames list represents. And this is only one aspect of the input into this game that you and others make - it beggers belief.

I can say, 'Amen to that!' when you say I have no clue as to the 1000's of hours you have put into this. And that is on top of what iambl has done. I am burned out just skimming through the list - talk about the snow flake on top of the iceberg - there certainly is a whole LOT more underneath it!

So, among other things, if I am getting this correctly, it seems that it is desirable to go ahead and amend my SHIII/data/sea/EnglishNames.cfg file to change "M10A=Hog Islander" back to "M10A=Medium Merchant" and ADD a new designation to the list, "Hog Islander=Medium Merchant", on the premise that a German sub Kapitan really wouldn't really give a stuff about place of manufacture of his target showing up in his scope (though, actually, having the scope tell him ANYTHING other than, maybe, "Ship", is a bit, well, soft.)

Must go and annoy Bigboy about the S-Class - seems unjust that the Septic Tanks have all THEIR sub's name's listed when the poor old Poms don't get a mention. (Mind you, the Brit's may not have expected their subs to last long enough to be bothered naming or even numbering them.)

[Gryffon300]

I want to sneak back for one last question..

In the 'Sea' folder, I note that not all of the class names in Englishnames.cfg have matching subfolders (eg AMO1A is there, but AMM is not). I take it that this is a non-issue?

Or two..
file names are not case sensitive, are they? (Eg Ship Names.cfg vs Ship names.cfg All new territory to me, I'm sorry. Just trying to eliminate possible causes of CTD.)

I'll go away now. (And by all means, SS, have a go under the desk. Its quite comforting, you know. Just push on the knot in the left-side panel for the 18 year old MacCallum. You're welcome to it - just leave me some!)

[HW3]

Info and names of the British S-Class submarines of World War II from Wikipedia.

Of the twelve S-boats from the first 2 groups of boats that were in service in 1939, only the last three on this list survived to see the end of World War II.

HMS Starfish
HMS Seahorse
HMS Sterlet
HMS Shark
HMS Salmon
HMS Spearfish
HMS Swordfish
HMS Snapper
HMS Sunfish
HMS Sealion
HMS Seawolf
HMS Sturgeon

The third and by far the most numerous group of S-class submarines consisted of 50 boats. They were the largest and most heavily armed of the S-class and required more men to crew. They were one knot faster on the surface, but two knots slower when submerged. Most of the group were built at the yards of either Scotts, of Greenock or Cammell Laird & Co Limited, of Birkenhead, with a handful being built at Chatham, or by Vickers Armstrongs Ltd, of Barrow-in-Furness. Construction was carried out throughout the war, particularly between 1941 and 1945. Equipped with a greater fuel capacity than their predecessors, they operated much further afield, in the Mediterranean and in the Pacific far east.
There were two distinct subgroups. The first were boats of 842 tons, comprising those ordered under the 1939 War Emergency, 1940 and 1941 Programmes (except Sea Devil and Scotsman), plus the Sturdy and Stygian of the 1942 Programme; these carried an external stern torpedo tube in addition to the six bow tubes. The second subgroup were boats of 814 tons, comprising the Sea Devil and Scotsman of the 1941 Programme, plus those ordered under the 1942 and 1943 Programmes (except Sturdy and Stygian); these carried no external torpedo tube, but had a thicker welded pressure hull providing for an operational depth limit of 350 feet - compared with the 300 feet limit in the first subgroup.
Losses continued to be high. Nine ships; P222, Saracen, Sahib, Sickle, Simoom, Splendid, Stonehenge, Stratagem and Syrtis were lost during the war, and Shakespeare and Strongbow were so badly damaged that they were written off and scrapped. Many surviving ships remained in service after the war. Sportsman, by now transferred to the French navy, was lost off Toulon in 1951 and Sidon was sunk after a torpedo malfunction in 1955.

• Five ships were ordered under the 1939 War Emergency Programme.
• HMS Safari
• HMS Sahib
• HMS Saracen
• HMS Satyr
• HMS Sceptre
• Twenty ships were ordered under the 1940 Programme. These differed from the initial five by having an external stern torpedo tube fitted, also a 20 mm Oerlikon AA gun and air warning RDF installed.
• HMS Seadog
• HMS Sibyl
• HMS Sea Rover
• HMS Seraph
• HMS Shakespeare
• HMS P222 which was lost before a name could be alloted to her.
• HMS Sea Nymph
• HMS Sickle
• HMS Simoom
• HMS Sirdar
• HMS Spiteful
• HMS Splendid
• HMS Sportsman
• The final seven further ships (P81 to P87) ordered under the 1940 Programme, all from Vickers-Armstrongs, were cancelled during 1943 (and were never laid down or named).
• Fifteen ships were ordered under the 1941 Programme.
• HMS Stoic
• HMS Stonehenge
• HMS Storm
• HMS Stratagem
• HMS Strongbow
• HMS Spark
• HMS Scythian
• HMS Stubborn
• HMS Surf
• HMS Syrtis
• HMS Shalimar
• HMS Scotsman
• HMS Sea Devil
• HMS Spirit
• HMS Statesman
• Thirteen ships were ordered under the 1942 Programme.
• HMS Sturdy
• HMS Stygian
• HMS Subtle
• HMS Supreme
• HMS Sea Scout
• HMS Selene
• HMS Seneschal
• HMS Sentinel
• HMS Sidon
• HMS Sleuth
• HMS Solent
• HMS Spearhead
• HMS Springer
• Eight ships were ordered under the 1943 Programme, but only four were completed. The other four submarines was cancelled after the war ended in 1945, and they became surplus to peace time requirements.
• HMS Saga
• HMS Scorcher
• HMS Spur
• HMS Sanguine
• HMS Sea Robin (P267) - cancelled
• HMS Sprightly (P268) - cancelled
• HMS Surface (P269) - cancelled
• HMS Surge (P271) - cancelled

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Gryffon300

I want to sneak back for one last question..

In the 'Sea' folder, I note that not all of the class names in Englishnames.cfg have matching subfolders (eg AMO1A is there, but AMM is not). I take it that this is a non-issue?

Not all the folders in data/Sea have names that exactly match the class for which the folder contains information. However if you open any one of the folders and look at the .cfg file there, you'll see a line for ClassName=xxxxx where the xxxxx is the class name that you should find a match for in the EnglishNames.cfg file.

A lot of the folders are named for the class name with an 'N' added before it in the folder's name; for instance the folder for class AMM is NAMM (as you will see if you open it and look at the file NAMM.cfg), the folder for class ARA is NARA, etc.

[Damo]

Couple of quick questions if I may...

Firstly, thankyou IABL for the work you put into this mod, having all those extra toys to sling various high explosive projectiles at is always very welcome. I'm using the Interim pack and and a few things have cropped up that I'd like to sort out.

I've installed MFM on top of other mods that include Community Units, TMT + Thomsens ships. My first question is in regards to the TMT mod, in that I have noticed duplications in the Rec manual for some ships that give differing tonnage or draft. I'm guessing that these are a result of the TMT mod and I wonder whether I should have installed TMT + Thomsens ships on top of MFM? Also, I hear mention of Ricks rec manual, should I also use this? Does it cover MFM and Community Units? I'm mainly using impact pistols right now but should I need to use magnetic, I worry about innacuracies in draft values that will cause a bounce of the hull curvature. Please advise and is there a link to Ricks manual if I do indeed need it?

Also, mainly directed at Sailor Steve, I use the August shipnames in commander but in my post patrol log there were a couple of entries that either didn't display the ship name or didn't list it's cargo or crew. Off the top of my head I believe it was Tanker 07 (no info), Medium Merchant 31 (Name, but no crew or cargo), and another medium merchant that had no info (can't remember the number). Is this fixable by reinstalling the ships names or is there a need (as I suspect) to edit config files somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Gryffon300

Historically, were there ever any names given to S-Class subs?

If your referring to the S-Class that served in the RN, then the answer is YES, they all had names apart from one that simply had a pennant number P222:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~gchalcraft/sm/SClass.html

[Gryffon300]

Thanks for all the info on the British subs. They really meant it when they said, "S" class, eh?

So, I guess the question becomes, should we petition Bigboywolly to append the S-class names to the EnglishNames.cfg list so we get to sink a Sibyl? (I guess I could do so myself also, but afraid of screwing it up without clear guidelines.)

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Gryffon300

Thanks hugely for taking the time to answer so comprehensively, SS. I hope a whole bunch of people read your reply to gain some appreciation of the labour of love that this shipnames list represents. And this is only one aspect of the input into this game that you and others make - it beggers belief.

I think it's akin to Ducimus' comments on how he began modding. It started off simply enough - four merchant classes, three tanker classes, 3500 names. Just look them up, find the tonnage and type, and apply them to the appropriate folders. Should take a few weeks, maybe even a couple of months.

Now there are more than 100 merchant and tanker types, and the majority are based on real ships, so it's both easier and harder. I didn't plan this. It just happened.

So, among other things, if I am getting this correctly, it seems that it is desirable to go ahead and amend my SHIII/data/sea/EnglishNames.cfg file to change "M10A=Hog Islander" back to "M10A=Medium Merchant" and ADD a new designation to the list, "Hog Islander=Medium Merchant", on the premise that a German sub Kapitan really wouldn't really give a stuff about place of manufacture of his target showing up in his scope (though, actually, having the scope tell him ANYTHING other than, maybe, "Ship", is a bit, well, soft.)

Dual problem. On one hand the real ID books had pictures or drawings of specific ship classes, and the captain often knew exactly what he was shooting at. On the other hand the ID books were often wrong, and the captain really wasn't shooting at the ship he thought he was.

My feeling is that each ship should have a specific name (I've often considered going back and renaming the ship ID after one of the names on the list, i.e. "Ainderby Class Freighter" for M12B, and the only reason I haven't is because

A. I don't have a copy of a real German ID book, so I don't know exactly how it was done.

B. I don't trust myself to change things in the actual folders without screwing it up.

C. Even if I could do it safely, I wouldn't feel right about publishing an entirely new Sea folder for download. What would I call it? "Corrected Sea Folder for Correct Ship Names"?

Must go and annoy Bigboy about the S-Class - seems unjust that the Septic Tanks have all THEIR sub's name's listed when the poor old Poms don't get a mention. (Mind you, the Brit's may not have expected their subs to last long enough to be bothered naming or even numbering them.)

I was going to come back with my own question: "Did you mean American or British 'S' class?", because I could have looked up the British ones myself. The question has already been answered, and well, so I'll stay out of it.

I'll look into adding a list of 'S' class names, but I'm a little unsure of the complete procedure. Perhaps Jim could help there.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Damo

Also, mainly directed at Sailor Steve, I use the August shipnames in commander but in my post patrol log there were a couple of entries that either didn't display the ship name or didn't list it's cargo or crew. Off the top of my head I believe it was Tanker 07 (no info), Medium Merchant 31 (Name, but no crew or cargo), and another medium merchant that had no info (can't remember the number). Is this fixable by reinstalling the ships names or is there a need (as I suspect) to edit config files somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

I looked at the ships in question, and their cargo and crew listings are the same as the others. Unfortuanately I'm unable to check any of these in-game as my computer won't run MFM, so I've never actually gotten to see these lovely ships in action.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I was going to come back with my own question: "Did you mean American or British 'S' class?", because I could have looked up the British ones myself. The question has already been answered, and well, so I'll stay out of it.

I'll look into adding a list of 'S' class names, but I'm a little unsure of the complete procedure. Perhaps Jim could help there.

I've just looked in your ship names folder Steve and the S-Class are already listed

August 2010 list:

[SClass]
CrewRange=33|39
0001=HMS Sturgeon
0002=HMS Seahorse
0003=HMS Stafish
0004=HMS Swordfish
0005=HMS Seawolf
0006=HMS Salmon
0007=HMS Shark
0008=HMS Snapper
0009=HMS Spearfish
0010=HMS Sterlet
0011=HMS Sunfish
0012=HMS Sealion
0013=HMS Safari
0014=HMS Sahib
0015=HMS Saracen
0016=HMS Satyr
0017=HMS Sceptre
0018=HMS Seraph
0019=HMS Sibyl
0020=HMS Sea Dog
0021=HMS Sea Nymph
0022=HMS Sea Rover
0023=HMS Sirdar
0024=HMS Spiteful
0025=HMS Shakespeare
0026=P222
0027=HMS Splendid
0028=HMS Sportsman
0029=HMS Stoic
0030=HMS Storm
0031=HMS Stonehenge
0032=HMS Surf
0033=HMS Stratagem
0034=HMS Stubborn
0035=HMS Syrtis
0036=HMS Shalimar
0037=HMS Spirit
0038=HMS Statesman
0039=HMS Strongbow
0040=HMS Scythian
0041=HMS Spark
0042=HMS Scotsman
0043=HMS Sea Devil
0044=HMS Sturdy
0045=HMS Stygian
0046=HMS Subtle
0047=HMS Supreme
0048=HMS Seascout
0049=HMS Selene
0050=HMS Saga
0051=HMS Scorcher
0052=HMS Sidon
0053=HMS Solent
0054=HMS Sleuth
0055=HMS Spearhead
0056=HMS Spur
0057=HMS Springer
0058=HMS Sanguine
0059=HMS Simoon
0060=HMS Sickle
0061=HMS Senescal
0062=HMS Sentinel

[HW3]

Yep they are there near the bottom of the list.

[Sailor Steve]

So I looked all through the list and didn't spot them.

Well, I guess I should be happy they're there, whether I'm aware of it or not.

[HW3]

They are in between the PCTrawler and the TClass submarine names near the bottom of the list.

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

Hi, kaleuns: I have a problem with MFM 3.2 full version. See the images, please:

Some americans (and other countries) merchants appears as "american", but the ships have the skins of others countries, and no american flags.

Still I didn´t install the skin packs in Commander; only MFM 3.2 full via JSGME and copy-paste the list in englishnames (as indicated in readme.txt).

I load (ever) SH3 GWX via Commander.





I think I have some wrong in my installation.

Many thanks and best regards.

Fitzcarraldo

Ouch, it seems my request hasn´t any answer....Is there some solution for this little problem?

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo