Time to regulate Bible and samurai sword ownership

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Dark,

The concept of hell was embraced by almost every culture and tribe before Christianity. Not that I assume those that we consider pagan any less than other religions, it's certainly a cultural issue often difficult to find exact beginnings for the earliest people. It is strange many cultures have almost this exact belief in man's beginnings, such as the Mayans, Hmong, ect., maybe that points to some earlier connection of man. Most pagan religions
believed in torture, stages of punishment, ect. There are so called several
entry points even now where different tribes entered the hell of their beliefs.

Any study of early Christianity until Roman control can slowly find the past concepts of hell being embraced by sects of Christianity, but it didn't become a doctrine until about 500AD. Anyone that has studied the issue can see Christianity embraced concepts from pagan religions and used them as tools of fear to controll the masses and a place of eternal torture was one. Most of the themes of Christianity existed long before in other religions.

They're atleast 4 men previous to Christ where the theme was the same.
They were born of virgins, wise men followed stars, they died on tree's/crosses to redeem man, were called son of God. Just search Horus or Dionysys, almost the exact story as Christ.

Simply, it's clear to me that much of previous religions were used to create
Christian doctrine.

From wika as an example.
--Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger.
--He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles.
--He “rode in a triumphal procession on an donkey.”
--He was a sacred king killed and eaten in an eucharistic ritual for fecundity and purification.
--Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25.
--He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine.
--He was called “King of Kings” and “God of Gods.”
--He was considered the “Only Begotten Son,” Savior,” “Redeemer,” “Sin Bearer,” Anointed One,” and the “Alpha and Omega.”
--He was identified with the Ram or Lamb.
--His sacrificial title of “Dendrites” or “Young Man of the Tree” intimates he was hung on a tree or crucified.

It seems that we are talking about different Pagan religions. That's why I try not to use the word "Paganism" but rather "Germanic Paganism", or as in your case "Hellenic Paganism". I assumed you were talking about Germanic Paganism as you were talking about Hell, which gets its name from the Germanic Hel. Apparently you weren't.

While I don't know as much about Hellenic Paganism as I do about Germanic Paganism, I know enough about it to agree with you that the Hellenic Hell bears some similarities with the christian Hell.
It is not nearly as similar to the Germanic Hel though. Which is why I disagreed with you.
Germanic Paganism has definitely had some influences on christianism (christmas being the easiest one I can think of ATM), but Hell as a place of punishment isn't one of them.


You should have made yourself more clear by specifying which Pagan religion you meant, and I shouldn't have immediately assumed you were talking about Germanic Paganism.

[August]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Stop nitpicking already
he meant "none"

Sheesh, who appointed you the forum Feelings Police? It was a joke or didn't you notice the smiley?

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by August

Sheesh, who appointed you the forum Feelings Police? It was a joke or didn't you notice the smiley?

sorry, thought that it was a sarcastic smile

The fallacy of "something greater than oneself

Surely Freedom is greater than self, belief and faith are the building blocks of the Freedom we enjoy today.

We have replaced Freedom with reason and education. Engand, my country was not built by reasonable or education people, it was built by unreasonable people who refused to lay down and walk into the darkness. The Freedom of the USA was built also by unreasonable people, people who refused to accept the King of England to rule over them.

The great issue that faces the Free world today is faith and belief, because we have neither. What we have is a Bible (reason and education) the thing the early Church did not have, but what they did have was faith and belief.

We all need to believe and have faith in what we believe. Believe this aircraft will fly the atlantic, that we will walk on the moon one day, that we will defeat those who would chain us in darkness. We are Free peoples, believe it beacause Freedom is Gods heart in action and Freedon is Spirit.

Sid "the preacher man"

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

Surely Freedom is greater than self, belief and faith are the building blocks of the Freedom we enjoy today.

We have replaced Freedom with reason and education. Engand, my country was not built by reasonable or education people, it was built by unreasonable people who refused to lay down and walk into the darkness. The Freedom of the USA was built also by unreasonable people, people who refused to accept the King of England to rule over them.

The great issue that faces the Free world today is faith and belief, because we have neither. What we have is a Bible (reason and education) the thing the early Church did not have, but what they did have was faith and belief.

We all need to believe and have faith in what we believe. Believe this aircraft will fly the atlantic, that we will walk on the moon one day, that we will defeat those who would chain us in darkness. We are Free peoples, believe it beacause Freedom is Gods heart in action and Freedon is Spirit.

Sid "the preacher man"

You can't blame people for using the resources they have, the problem for me comes when you limit yourself to just one resource. It's a great thing to have faith in mankind, but sadly I don't. If history repeats itself the world will weed out the weak so the strong survive... so stay running with the herd.

The early church had the actual letters and almost first hand teaching. Like anything with man it took many roads.

Most fundies today believe only in the King James Version. What they don't realize is our nation actually became founded out of the hate of the KJV. Once the council put it together, many Christians rejected it. The Geneva bible was their bible of choice. The story obvious is longer, but that's where it started, a group of people hated a chosen bible, rejected it and it's king and slowly a new nation was born here in the US.

With all my doubts I still have faith that something more exists, that gives me hope, but most important is love for fellow man...you know, the faith, hope, love thing....love being most important.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Armistead

What they don't realize is our nation actually became founded out of the hate of the KJV. Once the council put it together, many Christians rejected it. The Geneva bible was their bible of choice. The story obvious is longer, but that's where it started, a group of people hated a chosen bible, rejected it and it's king and slowly a new nation was born here in the US.

Do you have the slightest documentation for that story? Even the small number who actually came here for "religious freedom" were dissenting groups who institued their own versions of intolerance. Yes, the KJV was the text for the Anglicans, but that wasn't the reason for the dissent nor for their coming here.

[Armistead]

Well yes, but it takes a lot of study. Not saying that was the only reason, but it was at the core base of many of the issues. The Puritans rejected the KJV because the council used many catholic texts for study, often using latin over the greek in translation. Overall they rejected the KJV wholesale. Many moved to Holland, but later came to America for so called religious freedom, although they themselves were of one mindset and one bible.

Some study of the reformation would also be helpful. It is obvious by their writings that the Puritans stood upon the shoulders of men like John Calvin, Martin Luther, Theodore Beza, and other first generation reformers. These in turn stood upon the shoulders of men like Augustine, and Chrysostom. These followed the Geneva bible.

In fact, one of the greatest ironies of history, is that Protestants of all denominations today embrace the King James Version of the Bible even though the King James Version is not a Protestant Bible (it’s Anglican / Church of England). It was produced by John Calvin, John Knox, Myles Coverdale, John Foxe, & other English refugees in ever-neutral Geneva,

"While many Protestants are quick to assign the full blame of persecution to the Roman Catholic Church, it should be noted that even after England broke from Roman Catholicism in the 1500’s, the Church of England (The Anglican Church) continued to persecute Protestants throughout the 1600’s. One famous example of this is John Bunyan, who while in prison for the crime of preaching the Gospel, wrote one of Christian history’s greatest books, Pilgrim’s Progress. Throughout the 1600’s, as the Puritans and the Pilgrims fled the religious persecution of England to cross the Atlantic and start a new free nation in America, they took with them their precious Geneva Bible, and rejected the King’s Bible. America was founded upon the Geneva Bible, not the King James Bible."

Start here..
http://www.greatsite.com/facsimile-r...neva-1560.html

others

http://answers.yourdictionary.com/hi...o-america.html
http://teachers.henrico.k12.va.us/fa...s/puritans.pdf

We also had a long thread on it in a religious study forum that went over 2000 post. That was a year ago, but I'll try to find it.

The early church had the actual letters and almost first hand teaching. Like anything with man it took many roads.

Yeah, letters to help each other out is all, bit like a good forum I know.

Its difficult to expect the same fruits of the early church when we value a book they didnt have more than the Holy Spirit they did have. Bill Johnson.

Getting detracted by which bible to use is law, the very thing Jesus came to Free us from. I suppose the point I see above all, is that Freedom in the UK is being eroded and replace with ever incleasing amounts of law which the law makers break the same as every one else, honour means nothin.

The problem for people is one of control, Church uses the Bible to control us by bringing us under law, continually explaining what this scripture means or what that verse is trying to say. They change verses in Bibles to suite the requirements they expect from the sheep, us, heh. Instead of letting people discover by revalation what life and truth is.

Freedom is Spirit in the heart of everyone, it is under attack in the Freeworld like never before. Leaders lie and deceive their peoples to get them into wars they don't need, but we do not see the deception because we are blind to it, what we see is the law, this is our captivity being engineered. God gave Moses 10 laws to live by, by the time Jesus arrived the pharasees had increased the laws to 650 and people lived under the thumb of leaders and their laws.

sorry about this going on folks, but Freedom is my biggest passion, by far.

sid

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

The great issue that faces the Free world today is faith and belief, because we have neither. What we have is a Bible (reason and education) the thing the early Church did not have, but what they did have was faith and belief.

We all need to believe and have faith in what we believe. Believe this aircraft will fly the atlantic, that we will walk on the moon one day, that we will defeat those who would chain us in darkness. We are Free peoples, believe it beacause Freedom is Gods heart in action and Freedon is Spirit.

And why the hell do we need to "believe"? Why is it any issue to the world that "we" don't have "faith and belief"?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

Yeah, letters to help each other out is all, bit like a good forum I know.



Getting detracted by which bible to use is law, the very thing Jesus came to Free us from. I suppose the point I see above all, is that Freedom in the UK is being eroded and replace with ever incleasing amounts of law which the law makers break the same as every one else, honour means nothin.

The problem for people is one of control, Church uses the Bible to control us by bringing us under law, continually explaining what this scripture means or what that verse is trying to say. They change verses in Bibles to suite the requirements they expect from the sheep, us, heh. Instead of letting people discover by revalation what life and truth is.

Freedom is Spirit in the heart of everyone, it is under attack in the Freeworld like never before. Leaders lie and deceive their peoples to get them into wars they don't need, but we do not see the deception because we are blind to it, what we see is the law, this is our captivity being engineered. God gave Moses 10 laws to live by, by the time Jesus arrived the pharasees had increased the laws to 650 and people lived under the thumb of leaders and their laws.

sorry about this going on folks, but Freedom is my biggest passion, by far.

sid

Well, biblcally speaking, believers in Christ don't live under Mosaic biblical law. There's a difference between God's moral law and Jewish Mosaic codes. No doubt religious codes dictated most secular law, don't kill, steal, ect.

Remember, Jewish law was for the Jews only. Certainly every belief system makes up it's own so called codes of conduct for sin. We don't call it breaking the law today, we call it partaking of sin...

Christ freed us from the law of sin and replaced it with grace and love. You're correct, man has used many codes to define what is sin. Smart people that think for themselves test things with an open mind, not just believe what someone tells them is right or wrong.

There were lot's of problems with early Jewish and Gentile Christians. Many Jewish christians still followed many customs and laws from the past, the Gentiles didn't. When they came together they argued over what was right. Paul told them they both were right and just to get along and respect each others beliefs.

And why the hell do we need to "believe"? Why is it any issue to the world that "we" don't have "faith and belief"?

because to design and make a simple thing like a light bulb takes both

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

because to design and make a simple thing like a light bulb takes both

This makes sense how?

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

This makes sense how?

I think he means you have to believe your invention is going to work, because if you don't you're not gonna work on it and it will never be invented.

Still, this is a totally different kind of "belief" so it doesn't compare.

Still, this is a totally different kind of "belief" so it doesn't compare.

Faith and belief go hand in hand and are the same in everyone

A lot of leaders in Church today have trouble in believing, how can that be.
Because the fruits of belief are not there. What are the fruits of believing, light bulbs, mad people flying flimsey aircraft across the Atlantic, the idea of walking on the moon. These events are the fruits of Faith and belief in action, God has given every one of us a portion of this Faith, it's in the bible some where, you'll have to look it up yourself, lol.

The unbeliever or even the athiest believes in God more than he realizes, probable more than most middle class church leaders do today. When Jesus was teaching the people about faith and belief, the example that God gave the people was not a Church leader or elder, but a centurion soldier, a man who understood and practiced faith and belief every day, you don't get more radical than that. The church today is about control and law, the very things that Jesus came to free us from. Every religion is just that, religion nothing more. faith and belief are about people

sid: creator of fine slots

[VipertheSniper]

LOL sid

going by your logic, if I didn't "believe" in the laws of physics I'd be able to overcome them. I guess I could have superpowers...