Time to regulate Bible and samurai sword ownership

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Why?
I am genuinely curious as to why you think that.

It gives you something to fear, makes you easier to control
a common misconception is that north korean people don't have faith/religion, it is incorrect. Kim Jiong Il is their god.
(some)People don't do sinful things because they are afraid of going hell. North korean people don't sin(by north korean standards) because they are afraid of "disappearing"

If you fear nothing, you are a danger to society. That is why you need to have faith in something. whether its laws, force, god, the great leader, big brother etc

[Dowly]

I'm sorry tyrant, but I believe what you just said is called BS.

Peole don't have to have faith/believe into something to be better person or more lawful. It's called common sense, you break the rules of society you are punished, by not breaking them you make life easier for yourself.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Dowly

I'm sorry tyrant, but I believe what you just said is called BS.

Peole don't have to have faith/believe into something to be better person or more lawful. It's called common sense, you break the rules of society you are punished, by not breaking them you make life easier for yourself.

what if you don't believe in the justice system? you think you can get away with it?
what if you don't fear punishment?

I have faith in the system justice system. I believe that if i am a mass murderer i can't get away with it. Therefore, i don't kill people.

BTW, when you have reached the top(like adolf hitler), you need to fear something even higher than the law to keep you from doing bad things

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

what if you don't believe in the justice system? you think you can get away with it?
what if you don't fear punishment?

I have faith in the system justice system. I believe that if i am a mass murderer i can't get away with it. Therefore, i don't kill people.

BTW, when you have reached the top(like adolf hitler), you need to fear something even higher than the law to keep you from doing bad things

So basically, you take the assumption that by our nature, inside our mind we're all mass murderers, repressed only by authority and the threat of violence? Wow...

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by CCIP

So basically, you take the assumption that by our nature, inside our mind we're all mass murderers, repressed only by authority and the threat of violence? Wow...

Find me one person with unlimited power(emperors, dictators etc) that didn't use his/her power to enforce his/her will on others

Hey, read the bible. Even god uses the threat of going to hell to make us not sin and worship him

evolution has left a feature in us. We are always working for ourselves, trying to maximize our benefits.
Fear is the only thing keeping us from turning into a group of savages that kill the weak

[Dowly]

No, that's just not true.

By what you said, I should be on a killing spree right now, because for one, I don't believe in any higher force hence I don't fear it and second I don't really have all that much faith in our juridical system either.

Why I'm not out there killing anyone? Because I don't want to, much like I don't want to wake up early or eat food that tastes bad. It's all about choices you make, there's no faith or fear involved for me.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Find me one person with unlimited power(emperors, dictators etc) that didn't use his/her power to enforce his/her will on others

Hey, read the bible. Even god uses the threat of going to hell to make us not sin and worship him

evolution has left a feature in us. We are always working for ourselves, trying to maximize our benefits.
Fear is the only thing keeping us from turning into a group of savages that kill the weak

Humans are social creatures, there is more that governs our behaviour than fear. Empathy plays a large part in it as does mutualy benefitial cooperation. Then there is gain, waht would a rational person stand to gain from murdering all that are within his or her ability to kill?
You are boiling down complex behaviours to a singular, and wrong, simple answer. The world is rarely, if ever, that simple.

Edit: If people would be as you describe them, more would be capable of real violence, yet most people do not get into a fight in their entire life. By a fight I do not man a schoolyeard bawl where a couple of weak punches are thrown and then it degrades into a wresling match, I mean a fight where you go for another persons throat, go for their eyes, try to break a joint or kill hte person. Most people are only capable of killing another when forced to or it is trained int oa conditioned reflex and even then the vast majority have serious problems living with the consequences of their actions, if the sole motivator for avoiding violence was fear of punishment, that would not be the case.

[August]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Why?
I am genuinely curious as to why you think that.

Because people who believe that there is nothing greater than themselves tend to be, in my experience, narcissistic, self centered and anti-social.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Dowly

No, that's just not true.

By what you said, I should be on a killing spree right now, because for one, I don't believe in any higher force hence I don't fear it and second I don't really have all that much faith in our juridical system either.

Why I'm not out there killing anyone? Because I don't want to, much like I don't want to wake up early or eat food that tastes bad. It's all about choices you make, there's no faith or fear involved for me.

Ok, my philosophical understanding comes from history and movies, so it might not be a good idea to listen to my ranting.

anyways. I believe that we all have a threshold regarding what we are willing to do


Imagine the x-axis as the amount that a specific event would benefit you
the x-axis is what you would do
the y-axis and y-axis is a positive correlation. when x increases, y increases too
Now the horizontal line is you limit for killing. I understand that you are a nice guy. However, there is still a point when even you would think that killing somebody is worth it.
Now being religious, fearing the law, having morals etc would raise the line.

I hope that this would make my opinion more clear. And no, I am not a crazy killer.

Through what I have seen in real life, heard about, and witnessed in art, I no longer believe in the people who "won't hurt a fly". I simply believe that they have not come in contact with a situation when they think hurting flies are "worth it"

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Because people who believe that there is nothing greater than themselves tend to be, in my experience, narcissistic, self centered and anti-social.

That also seems to be true of many people who do claim to believe in something greater than themselves. The difference I observe is that most of them act that way about their belief rather than their own selves, but they still act that way. Believers aren't annoying in and of themselves, and neither are non-believers. Arrogant people of any stripe are.

Many believers try to be truly humble, but for many more it's not really about God, but about MY God. There are also many like me, who don't actively believe there is nothing greater, just passively acknowledge that we don't know for sure one way or the other, and can't see that anyone else does either.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Regardless of the possibility of what God is or isn't, man created a God to use for their benefit to control people out of guilt and fear, then call it love.

Men don't create God. God still exists even when all men reject the possibility of God existing. I know this I saw God. And I dare to say I'm not the only one. I even dare to say this and making myself vulnerable to mockings. .
m fully aware mys statement may draw flaks and I know it's not a proof in itself but I'm compelled to testify what I know even when no one could accept it not because I want to draw flaks on myself or trolling but because I believe the truth is a force to be reckoned with in itself that it needs neither acceptance nor approval from any people to be what it is, the truth.

Originally Posted by DarkFish

The only assumption I made about the christian god is that he judges people (partly) according to their beliefs (see the 10 commandments for example).
You obviously know the christian religion a lot better than I do, so if I'm wrong here, please say so.

Well I think I wrote whatever I felt need to. I just want to add that our life is so short. A decade is like a blink of an eye and we only live a few decades 6 , 7 , or 9 if we are lucky. I say live this life to the fullest. What is beyond our understanding is meant to be beyond our understanding. Talking about it won't change anything because the understanding is limited. Our understanding is limited because our experience is limited. Go out, drink beer, find the women you love, make a family, be happy at work and die peacefully. Live well die well! After all life is exciting! It is! After all we are each our own consciousness! The witnesses and flavors of this whole grand spatial universe, created or not, what a spectacle

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Castout

Men don't create God. God still exists even when all men reject the possibility of God existing.

@Tyrant

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the issue. Really, there's no right answer to the issue, it tends to be different for everyone.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by Castout

Men don't create God. God still exists even when all men reject the possibility of God existing. I know this I saw God.

Umm sorry mate but if you saw God you would be dead.

Moses speak to God face to face. But Moses did not see God in all his Glory otherwise Moses would be destroyed at the sight of him.

In our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would be consumed and destroyed.

Maybe you saw an angel or an evil spirit pretending to be God

Just like many have said Jesus is here or over there or I seen Jesus they are liars or tricked by an evil spirit. No one will see Jesus until the 2nd coming.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Umm sorry mate but if you saw God you would be dead.

Moses speak to God face to face. But Moses did not see God in all his Glory otherwise Moses would be destroyed at the sight of him.

In our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would be consumed and destroyed.

Maybe you saw an angel or an evil spirit pretending to be God

Just like many have said Jesus is here or over there or I seen Jesus they are liars or tricked by an evil spirit. No one will see Jesus until the 2nd coming.

Yes it is said that if one looked at the face of God one would die. Moses saw God's back and his face shone for weeks.

But to tell me that I didn't see God would not be exactly right too. But understandable since you do not know what exactly that I saw. And yes I'm impressed by that conclusion that proved you know what you believe in Frank.

I'd cite the following two verses but I won't explain anything. I'm too tired to explain anything. I'm just saying the following verses are true:

Only God lives forever! And he lives in the light that no one can come near. No humans has ever seen God or ever can see him. God will be honored, and his power will last for ever. Amen. (1 Timothy 6:15-16).

Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying, Thus you shall bless the people of Israel: you shall say to them, "The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace." So shall they put my name upon the people of Israel, and I will bless them. (Numbers 6:23-27, ESV)


I only seek to share a little something not cause argument. Again these things are personal. Writing this is not proof unto itself but a mere sharing. No you don't have to believe anything. I'm just clarifying. I don't need anyone to believe this I'm just telling you I saw Christ when I was a kid so I know God is real. Don't believe it it's okay. Can't accept it it's okay. No it wasn't angel Frank nor it was Satan the deceiver. I can tell this because God gave me love an out of the world love for Jesus and only then I asked to be allowed to see Jesus and those verses explained what I saw. I was expecting a bearded man but seemed Christ is too much for me(obviously). No I'm not looking for attention but obligated to testify any time I can to people who think that men created God or that God was fictitious. I'm not forcing anything but just presenting my little testimony when it fits. And no this doesn't answer all questions about God either.



A little something(light really and hopefully inspiring and no not religious)

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Tyrant

I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the issue. Really, there's no right answer to the issue, it tends to be different for everyone.

of course mate, lets keep it as a Modus vivendi