Energy efficient bulbs affecting your health?

[tater]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

LEDs are available in a wide spectrum of colors. Not just red blue white but mixtures of everything in between.

Actually the LED you have is probably a pretty good CRI but your so used to the 'warm' red end of the spectrum they now seem blue to you.

No, it's quite blue. I usually buy broad spectrum bulbs, so most regular bulbs in the house are "Reveal" types (which indeed look blue next to "soft white" (I've experimented ) but are in fact nice.

[Sammi79]

Hmmmm. No, sorry really sounds like absolute *expletive* I'm afraid. 'Dirty electricity' indeed - a smooth sine wave at 50Hz - Well all mains power in the UK is exactly that : a 50Hz sine wave pushing and pulling 240v so practically every electrical cable that runs from the mains socket creates that field to a greater or lesser extent depending on the dampening effect from the cable sheath. I believe in most of Europe it is 60Hz but at 110v or thereabouts? I don't know what the specs are in the US, but I assume after that video that it runs at 50Hz. Ever since the invention of radio, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things.

People live under/near power lines carrying 45,000+v at this same frequency which create huge EMF fields (like you know if you listen to the radio in your car and you drive under one), try taking that little 'magic box' under a pylon and see what it says.

Yes mercury is dangerous, so is flouride in your toothpaste, care should be taken when disposing of these bulbs as with batteries, microchips, microwave ovens, refridgerators and many, many other readily available consumer products. In reality unless you regularly eat lightbulbs or whole tubes of toothpaste you are not going to come to any harm!

Ultra Violet radiation is possibly the only real concern you have here, and that's only because people demand specific 'colours' of light - "I want my light to replicate daylight"... well daylight contains UV radiation. The colours achieved by CFLs are a product of phosphor compounds on the inside of the tube, they can be modified to produce any wavelengths we desire, and can be designed to nearly completely eradicate the emission of UV frequencies (only it won't be a nice blue-white daylight shade)

Don't let reports like that fool you, It seems to me sincerely to be some kind of media scare tactic for which the reason escapes me - possibly the makers of incandescant bulbs are running at a loss? or possibly because the people who control the people who produce these broadcasts want you to be scared, add it to all the terror etc.

[SteamWake]

Just an aside. The last commercial plant (in north america) producing incandescent lamps closed this year (many jobs lost).

As to the motivation about this report? I'm going to presume that A:Scare tactics draw in viewers and B:The push is on to move to LED.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

I believe in most of Europe it is 60Hz but at 110v or thereabouts? I don't know what the specs are in the US, but I assume after that video that it runs at 50Hz.

Actually, it's quite the other way around In the largest part of Europe 230V RMS (gives about 325V peak to peak) at 50Hz is used, while in the US 120V RMS (170V peak to peak) at 60Hz is used.

Ever since the invention of radio, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things.

Ever since Life, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things
And generally speaking, electromagnetic waves can't do much damage. What do you think light is for example?
Only highly energetic ionizing radiation can really cause damage.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Actually, it's quite the other way around In the largest part of Europe 230V RMS (gives about 325V peak to peak) at 50Hz is used, while in the US 120V RMS (170V peak to peak) at 60Hz is used.

Ever since Life, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things
And generally speaking, electromagnetic waves can't do much damage. What do you think light is for example?
Only highly energetic ionizing radiation can really cause damage.

Theres an echo in here

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Actually, it's quite the other way around In the largest part of Europe 230V RMS (gives about 325V peak to peak) at 50Hz is used, while in the US 120V RMS (170V peak to peak) at 60Hz is used.

Ever since Life, signals of varying frequencies have been passing through living things
And generally speaking, electromagnetic waves can't do much damage. What do you think light is for example?
Only highly energetic ionizing radiation can really cause damage.

Thankyou DF for your correction! Electromagnetic high frequency signals, SHF+EHF (2Ghz+) do have measurable effects on living cells - notably microwaves who's wavelength is equivalent to the size of a water molecule. Wireless digital technology uses 2.4Ghz to beam the data and it has been observed that prolonged short range exposure causes an increase in temperature in the affected tissue. There is also some argument as to wether it can cause nuclear damage to cells, splitting chromosomes etc.. which could be a cause of abnormal cell behaviour I.e tumours. However compared to Ionizing atomic nuclear radiation (which are charged particles emmited from atomic nuclei as opposed to photons) the effects are insignificant.

Visible light occurs in the spectrum at frequencies of about 10^14 Hz above
microwaves, Infra Red and all man made data signals. Ultra Violet occurs directly above visible light, then X-rays then gamma rays at 10^20 Hz. However these gamma rays are not to be confused with nuclear gamma radiation, which is particularly damaging to living tissue.

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

(gives about 325V peak to peak)

It's actually 650V peak to peak.

Originally Posted by Sammi79

Thankyou DF for your correction! Electromagnetic high frequency signals, SHF+EHF (2Ghz+) do have measurable effects on living cells - notably microwaves who's wavelength is equivalent to the size of a water molecule. Wireless digital technology uses 2.4Ghz to beam the data and it has been observed that prolonged short range exposure causes an increase in temperature in the affected tissue. There is also some argument as to wether it can cause nuclear damage to cells, splitting chromosomes etc.. which could be a cause of abnormal cell behaviour I.e tumours. However compared to Ionizing atomic nuclear radiation (which are charged particles emmited from atomic nuclei as opposed to photons) the effects are insignificant.

Visible light occurs in the spectrum at frequencies of about 10^14 Hz above
microwaves, Infra Red and all man made data signals. Ultra Violet occurs directly above visible light, then X-rays then gamma rays at 10^20 Hz. However these gamma rays are not to be confused with nuclear gamma radiation, which is particularly damaging to living tissue.

What these people claim, who are trying to sell these products to people who think they are hypersensitive to electricity, is that ..."scientists consider to be the most "biologically active" electromagnetic frequeicies (4kHz to 100kHz)"

http://www.dirtyelectricity.ca/stetzer_filters.htm

I feel vely solly for the submariners who are constantly bombarded with very low frequency radio transmissions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlf

[Sammi79]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34963043/D...g-the-Emf-Myth

^ this site references the most recent studies in the possible harmful effects of low frequency EMF and concludes from the results that the evidence for harmfull effects in all cases is inconclusive. It also references the proven effects of high energy, high frequency EMF like those that come from your mobile phone.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

It's actually 650V peak to peak.

Oops I just multiplied the value by √2, without taking into account that a sine goes down too

Anyway, I'm not in the slightest way scared of electromagnetic radiation. Maybe if you'd put an EM source under your pillow, you'd get health problems after a few years of sleeping. But most people don't have EM sources under their pillows.

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

I'm studying electrical engineering at the moment

You too? Where?

[SteamWake]

American distribution is like this

All 60 Hz

(Common) Transmission lines 1,2470V 3 phase

Stepped down to 277/480 (3 phase) often for commercial buildings lighting and equipment.

Then stepped down again to 120/240V (single phase common for homes and smaller facilites) or 120/208V (3 phase common for commercial buildings receptacles and light equipment.

Very rarely is 12470 brought into a building but it is not unheard of. Also 4,000V is sometimes used for large commercial facilitys (Sawmills, Hospitals, etc.)

Oh and its the square root of 3 for three phase but thats only for calculating current. It is still commonly refered to 208V 3 Phase but the calculation for current is (wattage) / (voltage x square root of 3)=I or current.

I commonly will just round off the numbers for quick calculations. 480V = 831, 208V = 360

[Alex]

Let's conclude saying new technologies (coming from the oh so beloved US of A most of the time) are ways to keep control over worldwide demography.

*sudden roaring of thousands of chain saw startups*

[XabbaRus]

can't say I have had any issues with them and we have them all over our house.In fact we have no conventional bulbs left.

I'm wondering if some of the issues are more psychological than real.

[Skybird]

I knew that the elektromagnetic fields produced by these bulbs can be up too 200 times as intense in energy than those of regular lightbulbs of same brightness (that'S why you shoulds keep your distance to them), but that it also is a different quality of electromagnetic field, was new to me.

The headache thing is known since longer, although for political and business reasons it still is officially denied.

MS, asthma and blood sugar also was knew for me, I mean that it can have so immense effects.

Don'T like these things too muich, I still find their loight colour annoying. Their warm-white simply is not warm-white with a sufficient degree of waves transporting the colour red, but it makes colours shifting towards the green and spectrum. I have two such things in use, but only in the cellar and in a corridor.

The future is LED, and LEDs in spots replacing halogen spots with reflectors are already really usable, the good ones have a warmwhite light like you know it from Halogen light, and are of comparable brightness. These ones also do not distort the colopur spectrum as massively as energy saving bulbs do (turning red into brown and yellow into green, even the wellknown, expensive brands). Problem is they are extremely expensive, still. LED-collections in normal lightbulbs still are not really convincing: not bright enough. But its getting better. LEDs in torchlights: beats every normal lightbulbed torchlight. General rule: you do not need a dozen LEDs, you only need one LED - but that must be a real good one, then it is good light colour (not that terrible cold blue-white), and shining brightness.

Light quality is life quality, and very important to me in order to feel comfortable and "at home". I do not accept compromises in light, at least not in my living room and kitchen. If halogen would not be available anymore and standard lightbulbs also gone, I would cry and spend the money needed for good LEDs - but no energy efficient bulbs.

[SteamWake]

"Quality" of EM field... LOL that term just cracks me up. Just conjurs up an image of two hams "Yea your getting out but you sound like crap".

As I said in an earlier post that pepole have been living within RF fields for decades. They have been living in EM fields since the beginning of time.

Its all over the spectrum. Shall I post a picture of my Oscope set for a low voltage and show you the noise? Its so prevelant that its actually hard to block it out. You know that psssssssshhhhh you hear when you tune your TV to an unused channel? EM/RF signals. Oh and while were at it that TV of yours? Try holding the plug of an amplified speaker up to one sometime. You want to talk about strong EMI fields. "Dont sit too close or your hurt your eyes" my mother used to say.

Now there is no question that a strong RF field can cause damage it is after all how a microwave works. But there is strong RF fields in the order of microvolts and theres strong RF fields of 600watts or more in the radar range. Yes I know there different units of measure but trying to explain that would take too long. In a nutshell the EMI/RF field within a microwave is 10's of thousands time more powerfull than stray emi/rf from a compact fluorescent. Hell there are wall chargers that put out more noise than CFLs.

Remember all that hoopla about schools and homes being built adjacent HV transmission lines? Where has that gone?

Oh and I wanted to add about the headache thing. It is quite true that all fluroescent lamps 'strobe' one in good working order should strobe so fast you never notice. But some pepole are subsectible to strobing effects. Remember those epelipsy warnings on video games? So sure I believe that some pepole can get headaches from poor lighting. Properly working 'quality' flourescent lamps with the proper 'quality' ballast should strobe so quickly that even the most sensative amongst us would not be effected by it. Notice the word quality. There is a lot of cheap crap out there. The industry is driven by being 'inexpensive'. But once more addressing strobing this is where LEDs are superior ... but only with a 'quality' driver.

[Zachstar]

Oh my geez not this again.

I have heard it all.

"It creates an EM field that will harm you"

BULL! You have any idea how about EM a body will absorb every day? Every Bird in Orbit overhead, Every TV and Radio station every mobile comm.

The only way an EM field at such low wattage can harm you is if you are RIGHT against it. I mean head to bulb or ANY device. For that matter. My computer creates high levels of EM that is why computers are required to be in cases. Not for heath but because the EM can interfere with radio.

"It creates tons of UV light that will cook you"

That is blowing a small issue WAY out of proportion.

LAWs do not allow bulbs to be sold in the US if the UV exposure over time is dangerous. CFLs let loose a LITTLE UV that does not get absorbed and reemitted from the phosphor layer. This is a direct attribute to the efficiency of a bulb in my opinion. Better the layer better the bulb less the tiny UV. Also to counter this further a new layer is being added to absord UV and STORE the energy to turn the bulb into sort of a glow in the dark emergency light in the case of a power failure.

Also a little extra UV wont kill you. And may help save you in fact as UV is harmful to microbial life.

Now all this is starting to get Moot anyway. LEDs will be the big item to have in 2012 beyond anyway.