Perspective from a complete newbie :(

[poetic hunter]

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up.

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

[Jimbuna]

If you haven't already, might I suggest you read the comprehensive manual that came with GWX.

[Draka]

"Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?"

In real life, that is exactly what the vast majority of orders were. Although it was supposed to be for the entire patrol - other posts will tell you that the 24 hour thing is a left-over from early dynamic campaign model that was never fully developed. What it means is that BdU is sending you to what they think is a strategic location - after the 24 hours you are free to use your own judgement as to exactly where to go to best add to the war effort. THAT takes a lot of study as to the convoy routes, best chokepoints, etc - all that historical stuff MOST of us play to simulate. Add in SH3 Commander, and you can set your OWN patrol location.

"Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3."

Can't really help you on this one - as a real life ex-sailboat owner I ENJOY the maneuvering aspects - I actually leave from the wharf and return to same - backing in as was done in real life. Again - this is an immersion factor and adds to the enjoyment FOR ME.

"Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again."

SH3 Commander will help here as well - you can choose various different fatigue models including turning it off. But the basics are these: Only have as many crew in the needed compartments to make that bar green (about half way) and leave all others in quarters. In addition, the higher TC (Time Compression) settings turn off the fatigue. Only fully man all compartments during battle of other emergency situations. I actually use the "No fatigue" model - as in real life "Nummer eins" - the bosun - would run the crew roster, along with the IWO - that is not the duty of a Kaleun, aside from ensuring that the other two are in fact doing their duties.

"Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet."

Again - immersion factor. Remember that stock is still somewhat gamish - the supermods attempt to go closer to reality. In real life, the only way to know if a ship's state is to get close enough to see thier flag - and know which countries you are currently at war with. There is a pull-out menu that lists what the exact state of each country modelled is at variuos points in the timeline - I just happen to know as I am a serious military history buff. Others will tell you how to look it up.

"Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*"

Á patrol ends once you have returned to port and docked - or died! Having returned to port, you can now re-fuel (auto), re-arm (change out different loadouts depending on available munitions), upgrade equipment, etc. Then you go out again - and yes, that is the whole objective - sink 'em all!

"Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?"

That is a feature of GWX - as that message only appears in Aug 1939. If you had read the orders, it told you that you were to only stay in the near area (AO98 IIRC) and run on the practice ships in that bay. GWX starts you on 1 Aug '39 - and the war doesn't start until 1 Sept. So what you do is shake down your boat, run practice runs until early morning 4 Aug - when you are told to return to Konigsberg, when your base will change to Kiel from that point on - and the next mission will be a real war patrol. Historically the 7.Flottille did move just before war start from those locations - again, an immersion factor.

Others will amplify these remarks - but the entire basis of this Forum and most of us is to as much as possible place ourselves in the place of a Uboat commander in this era - and there is a lot of things "under the hood" that are taken for granted - the entrrest in history, real specifications of the vessels and their equipment, the convoy system and how to defeat it - all of that. A very steep learning curve - but to us worth it in the end.

[Sailor Steve]

Well said, Draka!

Originally Posted by Draka

other posts will tell you that the 24 hour thing is a left-over from early dynamic campaign model that was never fully developed.

Actually it was a totally non-dynamic campaign that was rewritten after a major protest from the community.

[Mr_Kaizer]

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up.

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

As for number 2, you could use the Kiel channel to cut down travel time. I haven't actually tried it myself yet. I'm new to GWX myself, and I'm currently based at Wilhelmshaven (where the channel exits IIRC).

As for the tired crewmembers, they only get tired at TC speeds under...64 is it? And I believe that they only get rested at TC speeds below that as well.

[flag4]

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up.

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

its a shame you feel this way. i'll have a pop at a few of your problems.

boring objectives: you can go where you like. learn the hunting grounds: someone may throw up a list for you ie BF13/15 for incoming convoys.

having to travel: there is an option in SHCommander to start patrol at sea. switch to Williamshaven: you are on the north sea coast of Germany
start later in the war and go from the bay of biscay bases.

crew tired: they will - if new. you need to cycle them. check them, swop them around. (theres maybe something else here with tired crew but dont know what. maybe in SHCommander - you may have a fatigue model employed.)

which ships: check the flags. if they are neutral - dont sink. if they are allies, do. use outside camera to cheat if you dont want to wait and get close to check.

end patrol: click Esc. click 'save and exit.' if you are half way through and dont want to finish. when you come back load that save and you're back on that patrol. also, you have continue mission and return to base. self explanetary really - carry on or go home. if you go home your patrol is over. thats what i understand.

messages: messages are for immersion only - as far as i know. i think there are mods that make them more worth while though.


i think that when you get around these things you will be sailing!!
dont give up. its worth it. patience is a virtue here - you'll need alot of it. OR you can go to Single Missions and get stuck in straight away.

keep coming back and asking questions - there is never a silly one


....hmmm, have i made any silly mistakes

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by flag4

....hmmm, have i made any silly mistakes

Only ones that Steve would pick up on

[Jimbuna]

This is developing into quite an interesting thread

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

This is developing into quite an interesting thread

Home time for me soon so it'll be lunch tomorrow (UK) before I can rejoin

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Home time for me soon so it'll be lunch tomorrow (UK) before I can rejoin

Enjoy......we're having steak in a peppered sauce tonight

[Herr-Berbunch]

Stir-fry for me, now this is an interesting thread, and a can or two later on left over from a party at the weekend (for my two year-old, can't drink like she used to!)

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?

Yes and no. You can choose to stay in your patrol grid for 24 hours, or for your entire patrol, or not go there at all. The stock game awards renown for reaching the grid and putting in 24 hours there, but GWX removes the renown award (unless you mod it back in) for following those orders.

In RL most boats were ordered to take up station in a particular area and stay there until additional orders were received, or they made contact with enemy shipping and gave chase.

The game reflects the assignment of a patrol area, but you are free to leave it at any time at your own discretion to look for enemy shipping. Or you can read the "immersion" radio messages that come in and respond/react to information that you get from those regarding general u-boat operations. It's up to you. But the game is not going to tell you in particular where to go or what to do with your time at sea, other than assigning you a patrol grid when you leave base.

Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

But it's a reflection of RL... SH3 is primarily a u-boat simulation, and so the attempt is to make the playing experience simulate real life aboard a combat vessel. Getting in and out of port and to and from one's patrol area reflects that.

If you're not playing at 100% realism, you can hit the Esc key at any time and exit your patrol (return to base) without making the journey back. However there's no function that will teleport you from the base to a patrol area. The "game" is meant to start when you leave port. Many things can happen on the way to your assigned grid (should you choose to go there) - encounters with enemy warships and merchants included.

If you use SH3 Commander, you can opt to start and end your patrols "at sea." This will not land you in the middle of a patrol grid when you load a new patrol, however it will move your starting and ending coordinates to the outer edge of your home harbor/base/docks. That means that the time you spend navigating through and around local shipping just to get to sea is greatly reduced or even eliminated.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

The fatigue issue can be modded to better suit one's preferences, or done away with entirely. Someone else here can address how to do it manually, but it can also be done very easily with SH3 Commander. I use Commander's "no fatigue" model so I'm not sure what "normal" fatigue looks like... someone else will have to address whether or not something is wrong with your install in that respect, or if what you are experiencing is the way it's supposed to be (and how to manage the crew fatigue issue).

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

In stock, other vessels are color-coded to indicate whether they are friendly, enemy, or neutral. GWX removes the color-coding so that all vessels have to be identified visually by you when you encounter them (just like in RL). You can add the color-coding back into the game with the GWX Contact Color mod:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...?do=file&id=33

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

When you end your patrol, you get whatever renown is coming to you for what you achieved (ships sunk, aircraft downed). Your renown will show up either in the patrol log, or your personnel file, or both (I'm not sure).

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

If you were playing in August 1939, that message is for ships based in Konigsberg. If you were based in Kiel, it would not apply to you.

Additionally, if you started your career in August 1939, things are going to be pretty boring for that first month because the war hasn't started yet. There is no enemy shipping, no enemy planes, no combat action (unless you choose to start a private war of your own by firing on someone just for the heck of it).

It may be that some of the simulation/immersion aspects of SH3 just aren't for you, and that's okay. But nothing you're describing is a bug or an issue with the game itself (aside from possible problems with crew fatigue, which I can't comment on as noted above). It's how the game was meant to be, especially the GWX version - a simulation that recreates as best as possible (given the limitations involved) the experience of commanding a combat u-boat from 1939-1945. That includes navigating in and out of base where required, making the transit to one's assigned station, and then waiting to make contact with the enemy.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

UPDATE: (If anyone still cares)

*sigh* I'm about to give up on this game and call it "wasted potential." I really really did enjoy what I saw in the scenarios in the training mode, but career mode is not enjoyable for some reason.

Let me try to explain:

I did install the Grey wolves expansion. Just the base expansion with no extra mods or anything. While the UI has improved, the career mode is still the same confusing mess.

There are just so many little things that are frustrating me about career mode, and they add up.

Number one: Boring objectives. I get two mission objectives...every single patrol so far. Go to Grid X. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. Is this what career mode is all about?



Number 2: Having to travel out of port to get to your objective and having to return to port is annoying.

In GWX, The starting port at Kiel gets frustrating. I have to dodge through traffic, and go all the way around a country to get to grid AN 81. This is tedious as it takes a long time, and then my crew starts gettign tired. Which leads to number 3.

Number 3: There is possibly a bug involving tired crew members. After they get tired, there seems to be no way to replenish their energy. I stop the boat, put everyone in deck or stern quarters, and just sit there for days. But as soon as I put them back on duty ...red exclamation mark, and they're all tired again.

Number 4: No way to indicate what ships I should sink. In the vanilla game, enemy ships showed up as red. After installing GWX, all the merchant ships I encounter are blue. Are these allies or enemies? I haven't ran into one red ship yet.

Number 5: I'm still confused about how to end a patrol after completing the mission objectives. I can't go back home to port, because at that point, my crew is tired,and no amount of resting gets them back (see number 3). If I press the "escape" button and click on "exit patrol" the patrol ends, but I'm not sure if I get credit for it or not. It just starts patrol two where the objectives are almost exactly the same as patrol one: 1. Go to Grid X. 2. Patrol Grid X for 24 hours. *sigh*

Number 6: I got a radio message from GWX stating that all ships in Konigsberg should go back to Konigsberg. My sub was far away from Konigsberg when that radio message appeared. Did it still apply to me?

1. Get SH3 Commander - you can select your own grid refs to patrol, alternatively don't, go wherever you choose anyway - it makes no difference with GWX.

2. Get SH3 Commander - you can select 'start patrol at sea' which is better, you still have to sail throught the Kattegat though. Or you could start your career at Wilmshaven, or depending on dates, any other base!

3. Get SH3 Commander and select the 'no fatigue' option - let's face it real Kaluens didn't micromanage their crew!

4. GWX makes SH3 more realistic, during the '39 - '45 conflict kaluens did not have magical maps that instantly colour-coded (color if you are American) their charts according to the danger! You are supposed to stalk your prey, get close enough without getting seen and use your ship recognition manual (big book to the left of your periscope) to find out which ships are which! Also with GWX in the periscope screen are references (pull down tabs - top left) which list the flags involved and dates they're enemies, simply locate the flag on the hunted vessel, correspond with the flag on the chart and if your dates are right, los!

5. Personally I get to about 25km of port I'm docking at and then Esc, Exit Patrol, Dock at [port]. Yes, it does get a bit samey, but as 1 - you don't have to go where they say!

6. GWX messages are mostly for immersion - the fact is that you would've got similar messages in real life. Some are scripted for things like the fall of France or Norway when their ports began opening up to U-boat operations and your flotilla may have moved to one of these.

Most importantly, the creators of GWX spent alot of their time doing their best for the common or garden user. They improved the stock game no end and received only the odd thank-you in forum messages, they didn't earn 20-40k for doing the job that Ubi should've done (or be doing?). As part of the doing their best they wrote a few short notes and called it the GWX Manual, it comes free, gratis and for nothing with GWX itself and like Jim says - READ IT

If after all that, you still need more, go buy an xbox.





PS: this post is not meant to offend

PPS: Grrr, Frau beat me to it!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

they wrote a few short notes and called it the GWX Manual

This is the funniest thing I will read here all day.

Somewhere in the Mediterranean there's an HP executive sunning himself on the deck of a yacht which he paid for with the proceeds from all the ink I had to buy to finish printing out the complete GWX manual.

And one of these days I'm gonna sail my u-boat right through Gibraltar and sink the lousy bastid.

PPS: Grrr, Frau beat me to it!

flag4 beat us both.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

This is the funniest thing I will read here all day.

Somewhere in the Mediterranean there's an HP executive sunning himself on the deck of a yacht which he paid for with the proceeds from all the ink I had to buy to finish printing out the complete GWX manual.

And one of these days I'm gonna sail my u-boat right through Gibraltar and sink the lousy bastid.


[SIZE=1] flag4 beat us both.

I'm just glad I watched it load into Reader before printing - soon decided against it

Read the questions then just replied and your post started on new page. And I thought you'd been quick off the mark, quiet day at work?