65th anniversary of JV day

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

I guess our definition of major conflict is different. If one looks at history the deaths in conflicts since the advent of nuclear tech., has always been on a much smaller scale with fewer powers involved, and by consequence less people dead.

There is the world many wish to live in, and the world that we do live in, and nuclear weapons have done much to save lives.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who served in Korea and Vietnam, as well as their families, would consider them to be major conflicts. Personally, I think that 2.8 million deaths in Korea and 5.2 million deaths in Vietnam speak for themselves.

Regarding fewer deaths from war since 1945, you should consider reading this. It may change your mind:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

As ETR already said, the Cold War was, at it's core, a series of wars and conflicts over who was going to put their nukes where. We had ours in western Europe. The Soviets would spend the next 40 years trying to achieve a reciprocal standing, resulting in the majority of the conflicts listed on the above website. Of course, we not even need to mention the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the invasion of Iraq, and issues with Pakistan, India, China, North Korea and Iran, all of which are directly rooted in the possession or manufacture of nuclear weapons.

In short, the use of the Fat Man and Little Boy bombs did indeed prevent a horrendous and bloody invasion of the Japanese homeland that would likely have made D-Day look miniscule by comparison, but claiming that nuclear weapons have reduced the need for nations to engage in warfare is fallacy.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I'm pretty sure that anyone who served in Korea and Vietnam, as well as their families, would consider them to be major conflicts. Personally, I think that 2.8 million deaths in Korea and 5.2 million deaths in Vietnam speak for themselves.

Regarding fewer deaths from war since 1945, you should consider reading this. It may change your mind:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

As ETR already said, the Cold War was, at it's core, a series of wars and conflicts over who was going to put their nukes where. We had ours in western Europe. The Soviets would spend the next 40 years trying to achieve a reciprocal standing, resulting in the majority of the conflicts listed on the above website. Of course, we not even need to mention the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the invasion of Iraq, and issues with Pakistan, India, China, North Korea and Iran, all of which are directly rooted in the possession or manufacture of nuclear weapons.

In short, the use of the Fat Man and Little Boy bombs did indeed prevent a horrendous and bloody invasion of the Japanese homeland that would likely have made D-Day look miniscule by comparison, but claiming that nuclear weapons have reduced the need for nations to engage in warfare is fallacy.

What are you really worried about when it comes to nuclear weapons? The cold war left no dead from nuclear blast. But the deterence it represents has allowed us to live some what fruitful and productive lives. Until recently.

The idea that the cold war was bad is bad in the purely empirical standard of logic. No one has used nukes in anger since 1945.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

What are you really worried about when it comes to nuclear weapons? The cold war left no dead from nuclear blast. But the deterence it represents has allowed us to live some what fruitful and productive lives. Until recently.

The idea that the cold war was bad is bad in the purly empirical standard of logic. No Nuke bombs, no exentential wars.

I'm not worried about nuclear weapons at all. Are you worried about them? I simply stated that nuclear weapons have not mitigated the need for war; rather, they have exaserbated it. People lived productive lives before nuclear weapons, as they live them today, but stating that nuclear weapons are responsible for the standard of living may be a case of viewing history through rose-colored glasses.

[Platapus]

=The Third Man;1468661 The cold war left no dead from nuclear blast.

Perhaps some research into the number of deaths associated with exposing US Troops to Nuclear blasts would be in order.

[Ishmael]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Perhaps some research into the number of deaths associated with exposing US Troops to Nuclear blasts would be in order.

You could also say that about John Wayne, Susan Hayward and Agnes Moorhead who were filming "The Conqueror" downwind of the tests site too.



My Dad was in Noumea loading supplies for Operation Olympic when the surrender was announced. So, I fully support Truman's decision to drop the bombs or I wouldn't be here today. It was their use, ALONG with the rapid Red Army victory in Manchuria that precipitated the surrender, It also allowed the US to guarantee Japanese territorial integrity and prevent a divided Japan like Korea and Germany.

I also visited Hiroshima and Nagasaki when I was in Japan in the Navy WHILE I was Mk 114 Firing Petty Officer and saw the shadows of people burned into some of the few walls left standing after the blast. In fact, last year, I finally visited Trinity Site south of here near San Antonio, NM when they had the annual opening:



So, I got the "Places-that-got-nuked" Hat Trick.

In my humble opinion, only ONE group of people have EARNED the RIGHT to order nuclear weapons use. The Hibakusha, the survivors of the bombings. No other person, head of state, potentate or dictator has that right, anywhere.

[krashkart]

My thanks go out to the men and women that served in that war. You helped make a lot of things possible that otherwise would not have been.

[Sailor Steve]

And now it's time for me to ask the same question I ask every year, and see if anybody remembers:

VJ day marked the end of the fighting, but when did the war officially end?

[ETR3(SS)]

I'll take a stab at that, September 2, 1945 with the signing in Tokyo Bay onboard the USS Missouri.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

I'll take a stab at that, September 2, 1945 with the signing in Tokyo Bay onboard the USS Missouri.

Not even close.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And now it's time for me to ask the same question I ask every year, and see if anybody remembers:

VJ day marked the end of the fighting, but when did the war officially end?

Most people believe and accept that World War 2 was officially ended in late April/Early May 1945 in Europe with the success of the Allies and fall of Rome and Berlin in Europe and in September of the same year in the Far East, but there is also a theory that states that it did not actually "officially" end until far later - almost 45 years later, in fact!

The reason behind this theory is that, after the cessation of hostilities, Germany was divided into the two separate sovereign states of East and West Germany. Therefore the country which originally declared war on Britain, starting World War II (just "Germany") did not then exist.

The state of war between the ORIGINAL PROTAGONISTS of World War II - those being "Germany" and "Britain" could not therefore technically be "officially" declared as over until "Germany" itself (and not just East Germany or West Germany) existed properly and independently in it's own right, which did not happen until the east and west countries were re-unified into one sovereign state once again on October 3rd 1990.

Whichever theory is correct, what is true is that Germany and Japan (the 'Axis' forces) conceded defeat in the war and surrendered to the Allied forces in 1945, with the Japanese doing so later in the year - on September 2nd, so it is reasonable to assume that date as the end to World War II.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And now it's time for me to ask the same question I ask every year, and see if anybody remembers:

VJ day marked the end of the fighting, but when did the war officially end?

VJ day did not really mark the end of the fighting; VJ day marks the day Japan announced it's surrender, organized resistance continued until August 23rd (IIRC) against the Soviets in Manchuria and the Kuril Islands. The last action was taken by September 1st with the Soviets occupying the Kurils and the actual surrender was signed on September 2nd.

So, officially: September 2nd, 1945.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

So, officially: September 2nd, 1945.

Nope.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And now it's time for me to ask the same question I ask every year, and see if anybody remembers:

VJ day marked the end of the fighting, but when did the war officially end?

VJ Day does not mark the end of the fighting in WWII, WWII finaly ended on October 21 1963 when the Polish Paramilitary Police killed Józef Franczak the last active member of the Żołnierze wyklęci (Cursed Soldiers) who were fighting the Communist occupation of their country.

Although I guess Japan finally surrendered in April 1980 when Captain Fumio Nakahira was captured on Mindoro