Shogun 2: Total war!

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Unless CA pulls the same thing they did with Empire and Napoleon and fail to release mod tools, in which case modding would be pretty rudimentary and never reach the levels that mods for earlier games were.

I agree. I'm working on an Empire TW mod that's stalled due to lack of modding tools. Some developers seem to be of the opinion that their resources should be jealously guarded, & that that way they can make more money.
Never mind that I (& many others) wouldn't have bought mediocre games like CFS3 if it weren't for the excellent 3rd party additions created by amateurs.

Also, I have little interest in early Asian history & the idea of hero units contradicts the very nature of most warfare (success due to collective action, as opposed to individual heroics). I think I'll pass on this one.

[NeonSamurai]

Hero units (legendary samurai) though do fit in with the history, though teasing apart actual history from legend can be difficult.

[Dowly]

RTW with Europa Barbarorum mod had captains that could rise to be generals and they could be asked to go to Rome for triumph to their honor if they did well. I hope the hero units will be something like that.

[TheSatyr]

Definitely looking forward to letting the Oda clan loose again...heh

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Dowly

RTW with Europa Barbarorum mod had captains that could rise to be generals and they could be asked to go to Rome for triumph to their honor if they did well. I hope the hero units will be something like that.

Given the fact that they speak of Hero units being "capable of holding bridge crossings against entire armies" and "smashing through a battle line to engage the enemy general", I think not.

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Hero units (legendary samurai) though do fit in with the history, though teasing apart actual history from legend can be difficult.

They might fit with the history, but they do not fit with any semi-realistic depcition of warfare. In a game where the basic size of a unit is over a hundred men, I can hardly see any way to put single-man hero units on the field and have them act in any way that makes sense...

[Arclight]

Ehr, who says it's single-man units? Maybe something more along the lines of Battle of Thermopylae.

* nvm, I bothered reading it again. Yeah, pretty lame to have a single warrior-monk smash his way trough a battle-line.

[NeonSamurai]

Well there are historical accounts of certain ultra skilled samurai/monks (kensai) doing just that, including holding a bridge against an army single handed, or taking on enemy formations.

Now mind you they could not take on an entire army single handedly, but could make mincemeat out of smaller groups or larger groups in confined spaces (like a small bridge).

I personally don't have much issue with them provided they are not completely over the top. The Kensai from STW expansion were tolerable for example, and I suspect this is what they mean by hero units (maybe named kensai).


Ultimately though I hope this time the game will be modifiable so that units can be properly balanced with realistic stats and abilities

[Spike88]

I think it's important to remember this is from the pre-Alpha version of the game, so Heroes may be drastically changed or even removed by release.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Well there are historical accounts of certain ultra skilled samurai/monks (kensai) doing just that, including holding a bridge against an army single handed, or taking on enemy formations.

Now mind you they could not take on an entire army single handedly, but could make mincemeat out of smaller groups or larger groups in confined spaces (like a small bridge).

I personally don't have much issue with them provided they are not completely over the top. The Kensai from STW expansion were tolerable for example, and I suspect this is what they mean by hero units (maybe named kensai).


Ultimately though I hope this time the game will be modifiable so that units can be properly balanced with realistic stats and abilities

Aye, makes more sense for them to hold a chokepoint. Seems weird to have this 1 "hero" in the middle of a battle and break through alone, without getting stabbed in the back. No matter how good you are, you can't see a spear headed your way from behind. Not to mention taking down a general and his guard single-handedly; being a general kinda implies having some decent combat-skills, and I doubt he would surround himself with incompetent fighters.

I agree it won't be a problem if they do it right, but it is something that is easily made overpowered or useless, so getting the balance right is going to be tricky.

[Skybird]

Was waiting for a remake of Shogun since long. Hope they focus on the important things and do a good job with the AI. The original i liked very much. If only they would update the 2D graphics with 3D graphics and fix some quirks in the balancing of the original, I already would be willing to buy it.

No experiments, please.

[Deamon]

I also look much forward to this. I haven't had shogun though. How was Ninjutsu handled in shogun ?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Deamon

I also look much forward to this. I haven't had shogun though. How was Ninjutsu handled in shogun ?

Ninjas were exclusively used as assasin units, unless we refer to the battlefield ninjas of the expansions. Espionage units used the shinobi moniker, and functioned like spies in later Total War installments.

[Spike88]

Shogun 2 will focus directly on the daimyo, or clan leaders, like Takeda Shingun or Chosokabe Motochika.

The IGN article spelled Shingen wrong, probably just a typo though.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Ninjas were exclusively used as assasin units,

Let me guess, as a fairly unsuccessfull assassins ?

Unfortunately no game that deals with the mediaval japan can get this aspect nowhere nearly right.

This aspect is always reduced to assassination that are mostly unsuccessful gambling. In truth, being exceptionally competent, Ninjas were involved into pretty much everything and who didn't had any was doomed to loose. There was a plethora of ryu-ha specialiced in all relevant fields like all sort of special operations, covert actions, guerilla warfare, intelligence gathering/espionage, counter-intelligence, reconnaissance and security services, body guarding, advisory, training of troops, battlefield tactics, fortifications, sciance and so forth. And of course they weren't missing even in conventional engagements.

unless we refer to the battlefield ninjas of the expansions. Espionage units used the shinobi moniker, and functioned like spies in later Total War installments.

What was the deal with the battle field Ninjas ?

Are you talking about official expansions or community mods ?

Anyway i always wanted an epic japan simulator. I loved Lords of the Rising Sun, back then on the amiga

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Spike88

The IGN article spelled Shingen wrong, probably just a typo though.

Yeah and they are obligated now to commit seppuku.