Thanks for al the fish!

[gimpy117]

they way i see it is that there's a difference between discussing wither the game has been cracked and actually discussing how to crack the game.

he was just commenting on how the game was cracked after UBI said it was foolproof. It didn't look like he was asking how to crack the game or showing others how to.

I think you guys pulled the lock lever too soon on that one

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

they way i see it is that there's a difference between discussing wither the game has been cracked and actually discussing how to crack the game.

Again, read the rules of this forum.

it put it very simple, that we do not discuss the topic around here at all.
so if you find your thread locked at the sudden, don't be suprised.

HunterICX

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

they way i see it is that there's a difference between discussing wither the game has been cracked and actually discussing how to crack the game.

Not in this forum there's not.

Firstly, I think we all need to accept that the discussion of even the word 'crack' or 'pirated' is not allowed here. I may not like it, but there are plenty of other forums around that do allow such discussions, so I'm not overly worried. To be fair this is still probably one of the best game communities I've been involved in to date...so

Secondly, as nothing more that a point of interest. I'd like to enquire as to why the discussion of cracks is not permitted? Please don't mistake my intent to be subversive or stick one up to authority. I'm genuinely interested as to why, and to be fair I think it may do some good to the people in this thread who think that its unfair. After all, its all well and good to say 'No, not allowed, no way, never, final.' However perhaps just a small explanation as to the reasons for such a rule may ease the mind for a few of us. Like I said, I accept that the rules and would never request them to be changed, just am curious as to the reasons.

Sev.

[jdkbph]

Originally Posted by severniae

Firstly, I think we all need to accept that the discussion of even the word 'crack' or 'pirated' is not allowed here.

I know this is silly and I'm being intentionally silly to make a point. But didn't you just violate your own "rule"? Are we - you and I - not now, at this very moment, engaging in discussion which prominently features the words 'crack' and 'pirated'?

Where is the line?

As to your request for an explanation of the thinking behind the rule...? I concur. It would be helpful.

JD

[pythos]

The rules need to be clarified that is a given. There is NOTHING in the rules that simply say you cannot say the word Crack, or so on. No where in the rules is the prohibition of the discussion of the effects of cracks. There are clear details about not discussing THE ACTUAL crack. There is clear prohibition on directions to obtaining cracks.

The spirit of the law WAS NOT VIOLATED.

The law needs to be re written.

Oh Cnet's article was not even about sh5. It was about a console game. This article dealt with assassin's creed II.

Oh, and to all those that say it should have been dealt through PM. I have been trying to contact Neal through that method about other things, and have received only on response. He is extremely difficult to contact through that method. So that would not have been any help to U.G.


Also, understand my view here. I in no way support pirates (I am kinda in support of no cd cracks though because I hate leaving my cds or DVDs in my drive, I have heard nightmare stores of how drive failure has resulted in radial scratches in the media which is essentially ruined). Pirates are the reason we legitimate players have to go through all this lunacy. I don't like how the resale value of the game is all be ruined by this DRM. To me it is equal to a car company saying you cannot sell your car to someone else. But that being said, I do not support these entities. But I also do not like to see the unfair application of rules THAT DON'T EXIST. This is where bad policies based on good laws come from. In this case neither the letter of the rule, nor the spirit of the rule was violated.

Uber's leaving of the forum was a wrong move, in my opinion.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by pythos

The rules need to be clarified that is a given. There is NOTHING in the rules that simply say you cannot say the word Crack, or so on. No where in the rules is the prohibition of the discussion of the effects of cracks. There are clear details about not discussing THE ACTUAL crack. There is clear prohibition on directions to obtaining cracks.

The spirit of the law WAS NOT VIOLATED.

That is not actually the case. Here it is, cut and pasted from the FAQ (bolding and underlining mine).

We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez,abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, game cracks, illegal download sites, or illegal file-sharing.

As to the other points being raised perhaps this will inform the discussion. Again, directly from the FAQ (bolding and underlining mine)...

If a member wishes to challenge a Moderator action that involves the member, this challenge must be raised in private via PM or email, not in public.

Neal's house, Neal's rules.

JCC

[jdkbph]

Originally Posted by John Channing

That is not actually the case. Here it is, cut and pasted from the FAQ (bolding and underlining mine).

Quote:
We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez,abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, game cracks, illegal download sites, or illegal file-sharing.

OK fair enough. Then lets apply the rule consistently.

If I, or anyone else, mentions the prohibited words (by which I presume we mean to use one or more of these words in any context what-so-ever) in a post on this board, the thread should be locked - as it was in this case under discussion - and the user warned.

Sounds draconian to me, but as you said, it's Neal's house.

Originally Posted by John Channing

If a member wishes to challenge a Moderator action that involves the member, this challenge must be raised in private via PM or email, not in public.

Thanks for that clarification.

JD

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by severniae

Secondly, as nothing more that a point of interest. I'd like to enquire as to why the discussion of cracks is not permitted? Please don't mistake my intent to be subversive or stick one up to authority. I'm genuinely interested as to why, and to be fair I think it may do some good to the people in this thread who think that its unfair. After all, its all well and good to say 'No, not allowed, no way, never, final.' However perhaps just a small explanation as to the reasons for such a rule may ease the mind for a few of us. Like I said, I accept that the rules and would never request them to be changed, just am curious as to the reasons.

Sev.

Subsim Review has a good working relationship with the game industry. In order to keep that good relationship some mutual support is required. On the industry's part this means that Neal gets some inside access, and is treated as a respected equal. On Neal's part it means that he doesn't allow anything that will harm the industry or the relationship.

This doesn't mean he can't or won't say things are good when actually they are bad (just read his SH5 review), and it doesn't mean he's in anybody's pocket. It just means that he has a good relationship and it's in everybody's interest to keep it that way.

That's just what I gather - I don't actually know anything.

[gimpy117]

I've known we cant talk about how to hack or steal...but i was unaware that we cant even mention that the game has been cracked

I swear I've seen it mentioned before and nobody got locked for it.

[pythos]

Okay, now this quote does indeed cover the issue..

We do NOT allow discussion or even mention of warez,abandonware, peer-to-peer game swapping, game cracks, illegal download sites, or illegal file-sharing.

I have also verified the statement. It is within the FAQs.

I humbly concede the debate.

I will say however, I am not a fan of total prohibition. Reason being. DRM is a security risk. It is intrusive, and can easily be exploited by a crack. I would hope that this community would be the first place I would read of any such exploitation. But with such a prohibition this may not happen.

But I will abide by the rules.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Subsim Review has a good working relationship with the game industry. In order to keep that good relationship some mutual support is required. On the industry's part this means that Neal gets some inside access, and is treated as a respected equal. On Neal's part it means that he doesn't allow anything that will harm the industry or the relationship.

This doesn't mean he can't or won't say things are good when actually they are bad (just read his SH5 review), and it doesn't mean he's in anybody's pocket. It just means that he has a good relationship and it's in everybody's interest to keep it that way.

That's just what I gather - I don't actually know anything.

Thanks Seve,

Thats pretty much what I had assumed too, I just wanted it clarifying. In that case it makes perfect sense to say 'no' to threads discussing cracks! People in the gaming industry aren't going to want Neal over to preview a new upcoming game if his forum is littered with people discussing cracks. In effect, Neal IS a member of the gaming industry, and so (through his forum) should be setting an example!

I think that clears it up quite nicely.

Chaps, there are other forums that discuss cracks, some even discuss how to make your own no-cd patches. But we all need to do is remember that its not what we do here. Afterall, I think that most of us, if we had our own forum, would have certain topics that weren't up for discussion.

[Moeceefus]

i cant believe this arguement is still going on. simply because, there is no arguement. the rules are the rules, period. we all agreed to them on sign up and it is nobody's right to question them. people can try to pick apart the wording and make silly assertions as to how they dont apply to this case, but why? are you practicing contract lawyers? if you cant abide by the rules then go elsewhere. start your own site and play the boss there. being part of the community here is a priviledge that other people pay for. they dont have to do this, so the least you can do is respect them and thier rules. its not your place to question any of thier decisions. mind your manners and be thankful for this site.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Moeceefus

i cant believe this arguement is still going on. simply because, there is no arguement. the rules are the rules, period. we all agreed to them on sign up and it is nobody's right to question them. people can try to pick apart the wording and make silly assertions as to how they dont apply to this case, but why? are you practicing contract lawyers? if you cant abide by the rules then go elsewhere. start your own site and play the boss there. being part of the community here is a priviledge that other people pay for. they dont have to do this, so the least you can do is respect them and thier rules. its not your place to question any of thier decisions. mind your manners and be thankful for this site.

+1 this post from a relitively new member of our community