DRM a slightly different viewpoint

wetwarev7 · 04-17-10, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC

That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new.

Out of everything I've heard about it, this makes the most sense.

Der Teddy Bar · 04-17-10, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC

That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new.

Out of everything I've heard about it, this makes the most sense.

wetwarev7,

To repeat a post the always online business model is also about forcing the gamer to buy new version of the software every 12 to 18 months and noted restrict 2nd hand sales, which is your legal right.

EA is as always the leader in all things DRM and their take the piss out of the paying customer web page called "Online Service Updates" outlines what you can expect of Ubisoft.

Ubisoft has proven again and again they have no customer focus and I am sure will cut SH5 free after a year with no patch to enable people to play it offline.

Look at how many games are only a year or two old. Of the older ones most are less than 4 years with only a handful older than that.

I have never read a more patronising piece of garbage in my life as this below.

As background information, the games scheduled for shutdown in March and April 2010 represent less than 0.3% of all peak online players across all EA titles. Despite some people's perception, there is a lot of behind-the-scenes work involved with keeping these older games up and running. We would rather our hard-working engineering and IT staff focus on keeping a positive experience for the other 99.7% of customers playing our more popular games. These decisions to retire games is never easy. The EA development teams and operational staff pour their hearts into these games almost as much as the customers playing them and it is hard to see one retired. We hope you have gotten many hours of enjoyment out of the games and we appreciate your ongoing patronage.

May 11th, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
FIFA 08 for PC
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 for Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 for PC, Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
UEFA Euro 2008 for PC

April 15, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
Burnout 3: Takedown for PlayStation 2
Army of Two for PlayStation 3 (Asia only)

Additionally, the shutdown of Xbox LIVE for Original Xbox consoles and games (scheduled for April 15, 2010) will retire online services for the following titles:

Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for Xbox
Burnout 3: Takedown for Xbox
Madden NFL 09 for Xbox

Previously Shut Down Online Service
Arena Football for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Arena Football™: Road to Glory for PlayStation 2
Armies of Exigo for PC
Burnout Revenge for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Burnout™ Dominator for PlayStation Portable
Def Jam for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
FIFA 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
FIFA 07 for PC, PlayStation Portable, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA World Cup 2006 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Facebreaker for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fantasy Football 09 for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fight Night Round 2 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Fight Night Round 3 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Godfather for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent for Nintendo Game Cube, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Lord of the Rings: Conquest for PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
MVP Baseball™ 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
MVP™ 07 NCAA® Baseball for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Wii, Xbox and Xbox 360
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Medal of Honor Pacific Assault™ for PC
Medal of Honor Rising Sun for PlayStation 2
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames for PC
NASCAR® 05: Chase for the Cup™ for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 06: Total Team Control for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, Xbox and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 08 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 09 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 (Europe Only)
NBA Live 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NBA Live 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Wii
NBA Live 09 for Wii (Europe only)
NBA Street (2007) for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NBA Street V3 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 05 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
NCAA® Football 08 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 09 for PlayStation 2
NCAA® March Madness 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness™ 2005 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness® 07 for PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
NFL Head Coach for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox
NFL Street 2: Unleashed for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NFL Street 3 for PlayStation 2
NFL Tour for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NHL® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NHL® 08 for PC
NHL® 08 for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Carbon for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: ProStreet for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: Underground for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Need for Speed: Most Wanted for PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Simpsons for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 08 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
TimeSplitters 3: Future Perfect for Xbox and PlayStation 2
Total Club Manager 06 for PlayStation 2
UEFA Champions League™ 2004-2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
UEFA Champions League™ 2006-2007 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
UEFA Champions League™ 07 for PC and Xbox 360

Brag · 04-17-10, 08:05 PM

Considering Ubi's behavior so far, paying for the right to hook up to their server to be able to play SH5 is a bad investement. Not only it is widely reported an unfinished, buggy product, but there is no guarantee of how long Ubi will continue maintaining acccess to their servers.

If you think you are buying by paying for this game, you are badly misinformed.

Reece · 04-17-10, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanC

That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new.

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!

Harmsway! · 04-18-10, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!

It doesn't make sense to me either. Aren't there already used copies on Ebay? Or does the registration process make it specific to the copy and can't be registered again. If that's the case one time online is all that's needed not continuous DRM nonsense.

IanC · 04-18-10, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmsway!

It doesn't make sense to me either. Aren't there already used copies on Ebay? Or does the registration process make it specific to the copy and can't be registered again. If that's the case one time online is all that's needed not continuous DRM nonsense.

Yes apparently Ubisoft binds serial number and user account.
Just Google something like 'DRM prevents resales' and you'll get more detailed information.
Here's an interesting article that touches a little on that problem. http://www.gamespot.com/users/jamysk...m-100-25807107

IanC · 04-18-10, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!

I agree Reece, nothing adds up. Unless they're slowly doing away with PC gaming or maybe just Silent Hunter for PC. From what I'm seeing, SH5 is a step in the console direction already.

Tarnsman · 04-18-10, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece

This doesn't add up, if I go to any EB store here in Australia, they have second hand Xbox/Playstation games etc for sale or swap! never have I seen it for PC Games. It is getting rare to find shops here in Australia selling PC games, this is even before the OSP/DRM situation, in EB stores, out of all the walls, isles, etc, only a small corner of a wall is for PC games, the demand for PC games is gone, and now, thanks to this new DRM, it's shrinking even more, other Stores like Big-W, K-Mart, Meyers, they are gone totally!!

I think its not demand thats droped, its supply. Its not as if those XBOX and PS3 titles are available for the PC it seems. Here in the states its the same thing. I wonder how much longer the PC game platform will survive. How many GPUs and such can you sell to support WoW?

It all comes down to control. The PC is a relativly open platform where the console is closed by definition. Personally I dont care for the "games" generally offered on consoles, they are just too simplistic and dont have that replay value like my simulations on PC have. Basically, consoles are like having an arcade in your house -- which is cool, but I lost interrest in arcade games when I was about 20. (and Im not going to meet any new girls in my living room -- not my age anyway)

PC simulations like the Janes series brought me into PCs ten years later and Im still here. So this Ubi DRM thing worries me not just about SH5 but my PC hobby in genral.

Iron Budokan · 04-18-10, 11:04 AM

I agree with the general thrust of the arguments being made here. PC gaming is entering very dark days indeed.

Phantom Mark · 04-19-10, 06:18 AM

Well a great example of the short sighted approach in this game is this....

I have to work away monday to friday, and in the place I am staying I have no internet connection at all, driving me crazy as you can imagine, which of course means I cannot play SH5 on my lappy whilst away from my main PC at home, and now the weekends are so precious with my family that I dont play games over the weekend, thus rendering my copy of SH5 a useless pile of steaming cr*p quite honestly.

Thankfully I have SH4 on the lappy which runs very nice, cant help but feel very very annoyed at this DRM and will definately not be buying any more of them, in fact I will probably have to resort to a crak for my bought and paid for copy of SH5 so I can actually play it, how bizzare is that ??? very sad when you have to start searching for warez versions of games you have bought and paid for...........

(Yes its monday and I am posting from home as I have a couple of days off from work)

Harmsway! · 04-18-10, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag

Considering Ubi's behavior so far, paying for the right to hook up to their server to be able to play SH5 is a bad investement. Not only it is widely reported an unfinished, buggy product, but there is no guarantee of how long Ubi will continue maintaining acccess to their servers.

If you think you are buying by paying for this game, you are badly misinformed.

I agree. That's why I think of it as sudden death. That's why I can't buy it. It's like buying a time bomb and not knowing when it's going off. At what day and hour will it be gone forever?

Of course I want to believe UBI will remove the DRM someday but how can one buy it until then? How can one be sure?

wetwarev7 · 04-18-10, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanC
That's why some say it's not really about stopping piracy, but about stopping re-sales. They don't want anybody buying a used copy, everybody must buy it new.

Out of everything I've heard about it, this makes the most sense.

wetwarev7,

To repeat a post the always online business model is also about forcing the gamer to buy new version of the software every 12 to 18 months and noted restrict 2nd hand sales, which is your legal right.

EA is as always the leader in all things DRM and their take the piss out of the paying customer web page called "Online Service Updates" outlines what you can expect of Ubisoft.

Ubisoft has proven again and again they have no customer focus and I am sure will cut SH5 free after a year with no patch to enable people to play it offline.

Look at how many games are only a year or two old. Of the older ones most are less than 4 years with only a handful older than that.

I have never read a more patronising piece of garbage in my life as this below.

As background information, the games scheduled for shutdown in March and April 2010 represent less than 0.3% of all peak online players across all EA titles. Despite some people's perception, there is a lot of behind-the-scenes work involved with keeping these older games up and running. We would rather our hard-working engineering and IT staff focus on keeping a positive experience for the other 99.7% of customers playing our more popular games. These decisions to retire games is never easy. The EA development teams and operational staff pour their hearts into these games almost as much as the customers playing them and it is hard to see one retired. We hope you have gotten many hours of enjoyment out of the games and we appreciate your ongoing patronage.

May 11th, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
FIFA 08 for PC
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 for Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 for PC, Playstation 3 and Xbox 360
UEFA Euro 2008 for PC

April 15, 2010 Online Service Shutdown
Burnout 3: Takedown for PlayStation 2
Army of Two for PlayStation 3 (Asia only)

Additionally, the shutdown of Xbox LIVE for Original Xbox consoles and games (scheduled for April 15, 2010) will retire online services for the following titles:

Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for Xbox
Burnout 3: Takedown for Xbox
Madden NFL 09 for Xbox

Previously Shut Down Online Service
Arena Football for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Arena Football™: Road to Glory for PlayStation 2
Armies of Exigo for PC
Burnout Revenge for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Burnout™ Dominator for PlayStation Portable
Def Jam for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
FIFA 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
FIFA 07 for PC, PlayStation Portable, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
FIFA World Cup 2006 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Facebreaker for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fantasy Football 09 for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
Fight Night Round 2 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Fight Night Round 3 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Godfather for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent for Nintendo Game Cube, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Lord of the Rings: Conquest for PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
MVP Baseball™ 2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
MVP™ 07 NCAA® Baseball for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Madden NFL 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
Madden NFL 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Wii, Xbox and Xbox 360
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Medal of Honor Pacific Assault™ for PC
Medal of Honor Rising Sun for PlayStation 2
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames for PC
NASCAR® 05: Chase for the Cup™ for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 06: Total Team Control for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NASCAR® 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, Xbox and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 08 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NASCAR® 09 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 (Europe Only)
NBA Live 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NBA Live 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NBA Live 08 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Wii
NBA Live 09 for Wii (Europe only)
NBA Street (2007) for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NBA Street V3 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 05 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 07 for PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
NCAA® Football 08 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® Football 09 for PlayStation 2
NCAA® March Madness 06 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness™ 2005 for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NCAA® March Madness® 07 for PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
NFL Head Coach for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox
NFL Street 2: Unleashed for PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NFL Street 3 for PlayStation 2
NFL Tour for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
NHL® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
NHL® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable, Xbox and Xbox 360
NHL® 08 for PC
NHL® 08 for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Carbon for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: ProStreet for PlayStation Portable
Need for Speed: Underground for PlayStation 2
Need for Speed: Underground 2 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Need for Speed: Most Wanted for PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Simpsons for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 05 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 06 for PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox and Xbox 360
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 07 for PC, PlayStation 2, PlayStation Portable and Xbox
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR® 08 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
TimeSplitters 3: Future Perfect for Xbox and PlayStation 2
Total Club Manager 06 for PlayStation 2
UEFA Champions League™ 2004-2005 for PC, PlayStation 2 and Xbox
UEFA Champions League™ 2006-2007 for PlayStation 2 and PlayStation Portable
UEFA Champions League™ 07 for PC and Xbox 360

I didn't say I agreed with it, just that it made more sense than all the other theories.

04-17-10, 08:05 PM	#3
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Considering Ubi's behavior so far, paying for the right to hook up to their server to be able to play SH5 is a bad investement. Not only it is widely reported an unfinished, buggy product, but there is no guarantee of how long Ubi will continue maintaining acccess to their servers. If you think you are buying by paying for this game, you are badly misinformed. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

04-18-10, 11:04 AM	#9
Iron Budokan Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,778 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	I agree with the general thrust of the arguments being made here. PC gaming is entering very dark days indeed. __________________ "You will take on England wherever you find her ships, and you will break her power at sea." --Iron Coffins, Herbert A. Werner http://kennethmarkhoover.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-19-10, 06:18 AM	#10
Phantom Mark Bosun Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 69 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well a great example of the short sighted approach in this game is this.... I have to work away monday to friday, and in the place I am staying I have no internet connection at all, driving me crazy as you can imagine, which of course means I cannot play SH5 on my lappy whilst away from my main PC at home, and now the weekends are so precious with my family that I dont play games over the weekend, thus rendering my copy of SH5 a useless pile of steaming cr*p quite honestly. Thankfully I have SH4 on the lappy which runs very nice, cant help but feel very very annoyed at this DRM and will definately not be buying any more of them, in fact I will probably have to resort to a crak for my bought and paid for copy of SH5 so I can actually play it, how bizzare is that ??? very sad when you have to start searching for warez versions of games you have bought and paid for........... (Yes its monday and I am posting from home as I have a couple of days off from work)