Massive Price Drop!

[Sonarman]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

There are also different projects, Shells of Fury, Danger From The Deep, but they didn't received the kind o support Ubis' products has received. With that support, they would had the chance to "grow", and it was a natural thing to support them, when we all saw that Ubis' products are being put on the market unfinished. But subsim continued to support them, in any way and any condition. This is not fair, in my opinion.

True, but however incomplete you consider SH it's still a lot more complete (in terms of features) than DFTD or Shells of Fury. Of course modders will be more attracted as there is less of the very difficult "dev level" stuff to do. It's a much more advanced platform to start working from.

Originally Posted by Sonarman

True, but however incomplete you consider SH it's still a lot more complete (in terms of features) than DFTD or Shells of Fury. Of course modders will be more attracted as there is less of the very difficult "dev level" stuff to do. It's a much more advanced platform to start working from.

Yes, it is more complete, and i am still playing SH3 GWX, but mainly because of the modders work, but isn't that obvious that the things are getting worse and worse with each incarnation of SH? And isn't that obvious that the lack of respect to the customers is less with each product? Why should we support this kind of company with our wallets, with our ideas, with our hearts and minds? Maybe it's time to put a stop on this and at least try to create a fresh start. With somebody else, anyone else different than Ubi.

[Sonarman]

We are as they say "caught between a rock and a hard place" as SH5 proves, a lot of us have bought it however unfinished. We are in their pocket and they know it. However the general buyers are not and it is they not us who will determine the future for the series and Ubi has let them down even more than us by foolishly rushing the game out and penny pinching on manuals, their more accessible game is actually much less accessible than previous titles.

[Sonarman]

And while we are on the subject of massive price cuts my brother just phoned to let me know that GAME in the UK is now selling off Black Shark in their sale at £4.99 (bricks & mortar stores) what does that say for the future of PC simulation gaming?

Originally Posted by Sonarman

And while we are on the subject of massive price cuts my brother just phoned to let me know that GAME in the UK is now selling off Black Shark in their sale at £4.99 (bricks & mortar stores) what does that say for the future of PC simulation gaming?

Sh5 is not a simulator, don't you agree? I would pay much more than 50 euros for a well made simulator. And please, don't "serve" me that line with "niche market", it's not so niche ...

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

And while we are on the subject of massive price cuts my brother just phoned to let me know that GAME in the UK is now selling off Black Shark in their sale at £4.99 (bricks & mortar stores) what does that say for the future of PC simulation gaming?

I dont think it says anything at all about the PC sim market. It says something about the disasterous DRM backfiring because Assasins Creed 2 is also being reduced in a big way, and that is a perfectly populist genre.

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by Coldcall

I dont think it says anything at all about the PC sim market. It says something about the disasterous DRM backfiring because Assasins Creed 2 is also being reduced in a big way, and that is a perfectly populist genre.

I suspect that this is the real reason we have seen prices plummet so soon after release. Regardless of the consistently negative reviews SH5 has received, I seem to remember SH3 and 4 being just as incomplete and bug ridden, yet becoming immensely popular despite their numerous issues. In fact, I could hardly play either until the mod community started to work their magic. Frankly, I suspected nothing would change with SH5, that's just the way it's always been with this title. Granted, they could have done a lot better, but then again, I tend to feel like that with a lot of games these days (especially so called simulations).

Some people are claiming that poor sales will mean the end of Silent Hunter, yet I'm sure SH4 was not as popular as SH3, yet they clearly made enough money, and thought that there was enough demand for another game. Don't forget the expansion, which while small in nature, still demanded time and effort from the developers. Therefore, I see no reason why this should be the end, assuming money can still be made (they are a business after all).

The real clincher in all of this, despite claims to the contrary, was definitely the net connection fiasco. I have spoken to friends of mine, who have outright refused to buy any games coupled with such a system, and these are people who have previously put up with StarForce and SecuRom without complaint. Obviously the negative press surrounding this issue has not done anything to help their sales, and honestly, they only have themselves to blame. Many of us called this situation before it was really known about, and sadly we were proved right. I'm surprised they didn't realise the trouble it would cause, but I suppose they misjudged the unpopularity of such strict requirements.

If this is to be the last Silent Hunter, then that's just the way it is. Nothing we could have done would change Ubi's mind, because at the end of the day, they are only concerned with profit. This is something which is far more complex than the oft repeated "buy the game, or they won't make more!" argument.

In any case, we now have three sub games, two of which have already been heavily modded, and another which has 'potential'. That should be more than enough to keep most of us occupied should Ubi decide to pull the plug once and for all.

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

Some people are claiming that poor sales will mean the end of Silent Hunter, yet I'm sure SH4 was not as popular as SH3, yet they clearly made enough money, and thought that there was enough demand for another game. Don't forget the expansion, which while small in nature, still demanded time and effort from the developers. Therefore, I see no reason why this should be the end, assuming money can still be made (they are a business after all).

Ubisoft would not continue making the games if there was no money in them. SH5 even with poor sales will probbaly make a reasonable profit. Do remember that dev costs in Romania are very cheap compared to the same costs in Western Europe or US/Canada.

A 1 or 2 million dollar budget in Romania will buy you alot of devs and artists.

So the idea that Ubi are doing us all some favour by producing a loss making game is typical corporate pr bunk.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

Yes, it is more complete, and i am still playing SH3 GWX, but mainly because of the modders work, but isn't that obvious that the things are getting worse and worse with each incarnation of SH? And isn't that obvious that the lack of respect to the customers is less with each product? Why should we support this kind of company with our wallets, with our ideas, with our hearts and minds? Maybe it's time to put a stop on this and create a fresh start. With somebody else, anyone else different than Ubi.

I don't see anyone being forced into a position of supporting Ubi.

Ubi are the only game developer with their hat in the ring regarding WWII U-boat simulations.

I accept your description regarding the icompleteness of recent releases but I would also point out that people aren't taking it 'lying down'....there are many threads and posts on view that show the disdain at the quality of the SH5 release. There are however, many of the opposite opinion/viewpoint.

In the main it has been left to post release patches and the efforts of the modding community to make each release more enjoyable/complete/immersive (insert your own description).

What you would like to see is a culture change....a new or different beginning.

That will only come about if and when Ubi withdraw from the genre or a new games developer arrives on the scene.

I'm trying to maintain a neutral stance (difficult at times addmitedly) because of my previous involvement but am prepared to support anything or anybody who enhance the sub simming experience.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I don't see anyone being forced into a position of supporting Ubi.

Ubi are the only game developer with their hat in the ring regarding WWII U-boat simulations.

I accept your description regarding the icompleteness of recent releases but I would also point out that people aren't taking it 'lying down'....there are many threads and posts on view that show the disdain at the quality of the SH5 release. There are however, many of the opposite opinion/viewpoint.

In the main it has been left to post release patches and the efforts of the modding community to make each release more enjoyable/complete/immersive (insert your own description).

What you would like to see is a culture change....a new or different beginning.

That will only come about if and when Ubi withdraw from the genre or a new games developer arrives on the scene.

I'm trying to maintain a neutral stance (difficult at times addmitedly) because of my previous involvement but am prepared to support anything or anybody who enhance the sub simming experience.

I understand your position well, and I know you and other folks made GREAT GREAT things for this community cleaning Ubi's mess, and I know you can't say all that you have in mind or all that you feel. But I can afford this "luxury", I am not a disruptor of the "order", it's just that I am not so happy with the direction things are going, and I know that I am not the only one here.
I want you to understand, I play SH3 GWX mainly because of you and others like you , with the stock Ubi product I've played one hour and it was enough for me...
But I hope you are clever enough to know that without myself telling you that. I suppose you know that GWX, LSH, WAC teams made the game playable for a lot of members here.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

I understand your position well, and I know you and other folks made GREAT GREAT things for this community cleaning Ubi's mess, and I know you can't say all that you have in mind or all that you feel. But I can afford this "luxury", I am not a disruptor of the "order", it's just that I am not so happy with the direction things are going, and I know that I am not the only one here.
I want you to understand, I play SH3 GWX because of you and others like you mainly, with the stock Ubi product I've played one hour and it was enough for me...

Then we share a clear understanding of each others position and viewpoints.

Mutual respect and understanding is one of the foundation blocks that makes this community such a great/special place.

SINK EM ALL!!