The facts of life: A heartfelt defense of Ubisoft and DRM

Originally Posted by Silanda

How is that effective copy protection when it positively encourages people to pirate the game in order to get the best gameplaying experience?

Because in polite society we expect people not to commit crimes because its convenient. And nobody, ubi included, expects this DRM to be anything more than a temporary delaying action.

As stated above, now even when pirates get SH5 running, they run into trouble when they try to save, or start a new mission, or do something. So far its working perfectly for me, and perfectly as DRM. Of course problems exist but this forum is no more a fair representation of the silent hunter community than Fox news is of american politics and journalism. Its a self-feeding machine of rage and peer gratification, the perfect example of preaching to the choir, any dissenting voices are shot down as interns and idiots. DRM DRM DRM! UBI UBI UBI! OUTRAGE AND BOYCOTT.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Because in polite society we expect people not to commit crimes because its convenient. And nobody, ubi included, expects this DRM to be anything more than a temporary delaying action.

As stated above, now even when pirates get SH5 running, they run into trouble when they try to save, or start a new mission, or do something. So far its working perfectly for me, and perfectly as DRM. Of course problems exist but this forum is no more a fair representation of the silent hunter community than Fox news is of american politics and journalism. Its a self-feeding machine of rage and peer gratification, the perfect example of preaching to the choir, any dissenting voices are shot down as interns and idiots. DRM DRM DRM! UBI UBI UBI! OUTRAGE AND BOYCOTT.

U MAD?

[Méo]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Of course problems exist but this forum is no more a fair representation of the silent hunter community than Fox news is of american politics and journalism.

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

So far its working perfectly for me

It's working perfectly for me too. (OSP, not bugs).

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Its a self-feeding machine of rage and peer gratification, the perfect example of preaching to the choir, any dissenting voices are shot down as interns and idiots. DRM DRM DRM! UBI UBI UBI! OUTRAGE AND BOYCOTT.

I know, some folks just need to vent their frustrations over something they did not experienced.

As I said, it's useless to argue, you're wasting your time!

[Skullcowboy]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Because in polite society we expect people not to commit crimes because its convenient. And nobody, ubi included, expects this DRM to be anything more than a temporary delaying action.

As stated above, now even when pirates get SH5 running, they run into trouble when they try to save, or start a new mission, or do something. So far its working perfectly for me, and perfectly as DRM. Of course problems exist but this forum is no more a fair representation of the silent hunter community than Fox news is of american politics and journalism. Its a self-feeding machine of rage and peer gratification, the perfect example of preaching to the choir, any dissenting voices are shot down as interns and idiots. DRM DRM DRM! UBI UBI UBI! OUTRAGE AND BOYCOTT.

So a company TELLS us that we want something and that is in our best interest to just accept it. We decide we DON'T want it and it isn't of value to us. When we don't just roll over, take the buggering and pony up our cash, then we, the CONSUMERS, are the problem?

Really.

Sell a lot of insurance with that attitude towards customers?

Pirates are the problem, customers become the problem only when they form an argument without knowing all the facts, and that misinformed argument becomes a movement.

Customers are always right, and can never be pirates.

Not all users of Silent hunter games are customers

Even if piracy didnt exist, it still takes more time and money to make a game than it did 5 or 10 years ago, but we expect to pay the same amount. Or do you think the same effort went into Aces of the Deep as did Silent Hunter 5? If i'm wrong correct me, but didnt they cost roughly the same, despite you getting much less game for your money? Denying that bigger teams of people ($$Expen$ive$$) are needed to make these newer, more complex sims flies in the face of simple common sense, and i dont know how else i can convince you of this.

To not lose money due to expending more resources to make "bigger" games, they need to give you less product for the same money, or the same product for more money. More product for the same money means more money in the pockets of the consumers, which is not where it belongs from a business perspective. This is before you even begin to get to the issue of piracy, which due to simple GUI programs and the fact that most of us dont have 14.4K modems anymore, is more rampant than it used to be.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Pirates are the problem, customers become the problem only when they form an argument without knowing all the facts, and that misinformed argument becomes a movement.

Customers are always right, and can never be pirates.

Not all users of Silent hunter games are customers

Even if piracy didnt exist, it still takes more time and money to make a game than it did 5 or 10 years ago, but we expect to pay the same amount. Or do you think the same effort went into Aces of the Deep as did Silent Hunter 5? If i'm wrong correct me, but didnt they cost roughly the same, despite you getting much less game for your money? Denying that bigger teams of people ($$Expen$ive$$) are needed to make these newer, more complex sims flies in the face of simple common sense, and i dont know how else i can convince you of this.

To not lose money due to expending more resources to make "bigger" games, they need to give you less product for the same money, or the same product for more money. More product for the same money means more money in the pockets of the consumers, which is not where it belongs from a business perspective.

Then they should have raised the price. Although it is impossible to prove a win, I would bet all the liquid assets I have that they could have doubled the price, forgone any copy protection, and spent the money they wasted on OSP on actually making the game better and would have sold more copies than they will with this approach.

It is just business and they have made a terrible business decision based on emotion instead of profit.

At least we know they are not Ferengi!

Rip

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Pirates are the problem, customers become the problem only when they form an argument without knowing all the facts, and that misinformed argument becomes a movement.

Customers are always right, and can never be pirates.

Not all users of Silent hunter games are customers

Even if piracy didnt exist, it still takes more time and money to make a game than it did 5 or 10 years ago, but we expect to pay the same amount. Or do you think the same effort went into Aces of the Deep as did Silent Hunter 5? If i'm wrong correct me, but didnt they cost roughly the same, despite you getting much less game for your money? Denying that bigger teams of people ($$Expen$ive$$) are needed to make these newer, more complex sims flies in the face of simple common sense, and i dont know how else i can convince you of this.

To not lose money due to expending more resources to make "bigger" games, they need to give you less product for the same money, or the same product for more money. More product for the same money means more money in the pockets of the consumers, which is not where it belongs from a business perspective.

Game prices have risen for me..... About 20 years ago games used to cost 10 UK pounds (dont have pound sign on this US keyboard) and now silent hunter 5 will cost me NZ$100... which is about 35 UK pounds. or NZ$120 for collectors ed. about 45 UK pounds.
Also games now sell many more copies then they did.

So games cost about 3 1/2 times more than they did and they sell about 10 times more copies.

Did you remember to adjust for inflation?

Also, do you really think good games generally sell better than bad games? Honestly? Seriously?

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Did you remember to adjust for inflation?

Also, do you really think good games generally sell better than bad games? Honestly? Seriously?

No i didnt take inflation into account. But thought it obvious that the average income hasnt increased by 3 1/2 times.

The price of PC games has increased by approx 300% (compared to 20 years ago) Income has not increased by anywhere near that amount.





Game companies ARE making alot more money than they used too.



And wether a good game sells better than bad games is not part of the argument.
Sure it cost more to make games.... but companies are also making more money.

Originally Posted by jwilliams

Sure it cost more to make games.... but companies are also making more money.

But i am saying that the cost of making a game skyrockets in line with the ridiculous increase in computing power over time, what used to take a team of 5 or 10 a few months may take 100 people years to make. If they are making 3 times more money and the game takes 15 times more money to make, well you do the math.

Tell me this, do you think a company has a responsibility to deliver a quality product, even if this might hurt the amount of money that they make? (yes or no would be great) Remember that the money you spend on a game is putting food on someones table, and if it wasnt for the assult charges that would follow i would personally kick every pirate i could find squarely in the nuts. I'm not talking about big whigs in suits, im talking about someone they hire to sweep the floors or someone to keep all the windows vista computers from crapping out, someone who takes phone calls or arranges travel for employees.

Stealing is a crime, and it has its victims. Screw the word "Piracy", that makes it sound cool, its theft. No different from slipping a shirt into your coat at the mall. Just imagine how that would go down on this forum... "Lol stupid ubiclothes and their anti-theft shirt alarms, I AM NOT A THIEF, why do i have to wait for the store clerk to undo this alarm thing from the merchandise? Thats time from my life i will never get back, im boycotting this store! You know if they made a better quality shirt they would make more money, its simple!".

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

Game companies ARE making alot more money than they used too.

Ubisoft profits have been going down for a few years and they are forecasting a loss this year, but don't take my word for it. Their financial statements are online and if they lie in those, company excutives and the auditors are going to jail.

Mattdrizzle, I don't know why you are wasting your time in this thread. If you really want to know how the so called "sub sim community" feels, look right here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164177

60% of "the community" say SH5 is GOOD.

and even more important is this "poll":

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...s-1918550.html

The rest is just meaningless background noise.

[Armistead]

The economy is hard all right, so you do everything possible to make your customers happy because many are hanging on to their money. It's not my job to worry about a designer sitting at home, he wouldn't be if common sense practices were put in place.

Many of us didn't buy SH5 because of DRM..Let's see, couple hundred post of people that couldn't play their game Sunday because Ubi's servers were down.. Doesn't matter how or why, they were down. They went down once and they will again. It will be a problem that will continue until it's dropped. I can see it now. Have the day to yourself. Get your drink ready, sit and ready for some game time...cannot connect...not me.
If I operated my business by delivering a half finished product that could only be used when I said so...I would rightfully be out of business.

That tells me it was the right decision not to buy and wait until I can get it in a bargain bin...Many customers not buying equals DRM is the problem. If they think they can make more money by stopping pirates a few days over thousands not buying until it's in a bargain bin...the pirates have a double win. Not to mention they've created a new generation of pirates.

[Skullcowboy]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Pirates are the problem, customers become the problem only when they form an argument without knowing all the facts, and that misinformed argument becomes a movement.

Funny how when ever someone complains about DRM they are accused of being misinformed or just plain pirates. I am neither.

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Customers are always right, and can never be pirates.

But that's not what you just said above, about them being right, anyway...

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Not all users of Silent hunter games are customers

I have never disputed this.

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Even if piracy didnt exist, it still takes more time and money to make a game than it did 5 or 10 years ago, but we expect to pay the same amount. Or do you think the same effort went into Aces of the Deep as did Silent Hunter 5? If i'm wrong correct me, but didnt they cost roughly the same, despite you getting much less game for your money?Denying that bigger teams of people ($$Expen$ive$$) are needed to make these newer, more complex sims flies in the face of simple common sense, and i dont know how else i can convince you of this.

The price of the game is not the issue here. I WOULD pay more for the product if I felt it provided the value for that price.

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

To not lose money due to expending more resources to make "bigger" games, they need to give you less product for the same money, or the same product for more money. More product for the same money means more money in the pockets of the consumers, which is not where it belongs from a business perspective. This is before you even begin to get to the issue of piracy, which due to simple GUI programs and the fact that most of us dont have 14.4K modems anymore, is more rampant than it used to be.

Again, I am not disputing this. Again, my point is and has always been (even after you called it ridiculous) that the focus of your business must be on the CUSTOMER. To be a tad blunt, the customer does not care about production, development, resources, distribution issues, payrolls, whether one of the employees has a place to live or pirates. It is not the customers responsibility to fix your business model. But when the focus of your business becomes any of the aforementioned issues to the detriment of the customer there is a serious problem and those customers will take their cash elsewhere.

And really, calling us uninformed, pirates, or comparing us to Fox News because we do this just confirms that you lost us because you either didn't care or just plain forgot about us, THE CUSTOMERS, to begin with.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by MattDizzle

Of course problems exist but this forum is no more a fair representation of the silent hunter community than Fox news is of american politics and journalism. Its a self-feeding machine of rage and peer gratification, the perfect example of preaching to the choir, any dissenting voices are shot down as interns and idiots. DRM DRM DRM! UBI UBI UBI! OUTRAGE AND BOYCOTT.

I'm not showing rage or preaching to anyone. And dissenting voices are usually argued with, not "shot down as interns and idiots". But you didn't just disagree, you started off this thread telling everyone they didn't know what they were talking about and needed you to explain it to us.

Do you think I don't have a right to not buy the game, nor a right to complain about the fact that I'm not allowed to play it because UBIsoft said so?

Ok guys i'll make this as simple as i can.

That kind of start is not an invitation to a discussion; it's a challenge, pure and simple. You can preach if you want, but when you do you know at the start what the reaction is going to be, and you can't hide behind crying about people shooting you down.

I'm beginning to agree with the guys who think you are Trenken, posting under a new name.