The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[Gato76]

I was looking at the system requirement for this game and you will need a permanent HIGH SPEED internet connection,so if you are on dial up u are SOL, here is the link http://shop.ubi.com/Prod_ExtDesc.asp?catalogid=994 Ubi u suck

[sabretwo]

Meo,

If I sound emotional about this, like many here, I was really looking forward to this new release. But in one week, this whole DRM thing turned me from a historically loyal UBI supporter into an angry and bitter a**hole.

(Well, maybe I was a little bit of an a**hole before that, but at least I wasn't angry and bitter. )

Setting all speculation about the World Domination theories and "darker intentions" aside, I do believe that UBI's fear of piracy is largely to blame for this. Although its unknown to what degree that actually has resulted in true loss of sales, I for one would pay $100 for the game if it was good and didn't have this DRM crap. If twice the previous price is the price to pay for UBI's suspected loss to pirates, then fine with me. I'd groan, but pay it. But this draconian DRM business has me on the out.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Regardless of all the arguments, I see both points of view. UBIsoft needs to protect their investment, and consumers don't want the DRM for all the reasons listed. Can't blame either side. But the common enemy here is the pirates. UBIsoft is not the enemy here. I hope eventually something can replace a solution like this DRM (online only) application. But for now, it's what we got.

You know, exactly. It's a damn shame that instead of trying to stop piracy, or at least lay the blame for the need of copy protection on pirates, so many people rally against the game company.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by sabretwo

I don't think you understand my point, Meo. For many of us, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF CHOICE!!!!

In many of our cases, cost of monthly service is not the issue. (But it may be for those who pay per MB, like many of our European members.) I pay almost $100 per month for satellite Internet at our vacation house in Georgia. Problem is satellite Internet is highly unreliable! If it rains, your screwed. If its too overcast, your screwed. And North Georgia certainly gets its share of those days! Where money is an issue is needing to pay $5,000-$10,000 to have a cable line run out to the house so I can have a stable Internet connection to play a stinking game that shouldn't require it to begin with. Or having to pay $20-$30 per night for Internet access while in a hotel. (Which is about 30-40% of my gaming time.)

Sorry if I sound VERY frustrated by this but I keep hearing people talk about this like we have a choice.

NEWSFLASH! There is a whole big world out there beyond your neighborhood. In that great big world, there are lots of places that do not have cable or fiber Internet yet and may not for many years to come. And YES, those "hicks" and "pygmies" often have high end computers and even money to buy games. In fact, there are geographically MORE of those places in the world than there are that have high speed wired Internet.

With all respect guys, please stop being _____ and assuming that everybody lives in your apartment building!

(Oops, Sorry Neal, I was going to say obtuse but then I realzed that might be provacative so I just left it blank. )

Thanks, I think...

Seriously, we know this is going to be a problem for some people, just like it was when SH3 came out on a DVD and so many cried "I ain't got no DVD playerrrr!!??!!"

Between me and you, I would prefer the game comes with Steam only, or at the most, online to activate and then it looks for an online connection to verify. I also wish I did not need to password protect my online bank account, but if I don't some scumbag will steal my $$.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Gato76

I was looking at the system requirement for this game and you will need a permanent HIGH SPEED internet connection,so if you are on dial up u are SOL, here is the link http://shop.ubi.com/Prod_ExtDesc.asp?catalogid=994 Pirates, u suck

Fixed.

Not sure (because I have not seen the game yet) but you may be able to play with less than high speed...

Will customers need to upgrade their Internet connection to broadband speed?
No. We've made sure that the game is playable even with the lowest (A)DSL connections.

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You know, exactly. It's a damn shame that instead of trying to stop piracy, or at least lay the blame for the need of copy protection on pirates, so many people rally against the game company.

So whats the solution regarding SH5 then ?

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You know, exactly. It's a damn shame that instead of trying to stop piracy, or at least lay the blame for the need of copy protection on pirates, so many people rally against the game company.

True, but there has to be a better way than forcing constant internet connection for a 1 player game.

Periodic online verification? OK, can understand that.

No off-line play mode between repeat verifications?
Really, really stupid and insufferably intrusive (what a lovely piece of alliteration ).

Cheers

p.s. pirates are thieves, pure and simple. One big problem is that nobody EVER reports people they know to be pirates. There's an odd moral code that says "when a friend breaks the law they don't really break the law". It's not a code to which I subscribe, but this sort of 'tribal thinking' is a significant root cause of many injustices i.e. it is inherently in conflict with the concept of a rule of law in which all are equal.

Phew. Off the soap box now....

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

Periodic online verification? OK, can understand that.

Yeah, I agree, this would probably be the best solution.

I would be curious to know their response on this.

[sabretwo]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You know, exactly. It's a damn shame that instead of trying to stop piracy, or at least lay the blame for the need of copy protection on pirates, so many people rally against the game company.

True, the pirates may have created the situation. But UBI chose to go overboard in their solution.

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I also wish I did not need to password protect my online bank account, but if I don't some scumbag will steal my $$.

True, but your bank doesn't require you to come in during office hours every time you need to make a withdrawl and do a live biometric scan. You do have the convenience of using your ATM card and pin.

It's all an issue of balance. There are many ways to address the piracy issue without getting draconian with your customers. (Steam, raise prices to compensate for loss, incentivize legitimate purchase, etc.)

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Between me and you, I would prefer the game comes with Steam only, or at the most, online to activate and then it looks for an online connection to verify.

This is the part that vexes me. To my knowledge, Steam works. Having the game phone home once in a blue moon to verify legitimacy, I have no problem with that. I think most of us here would be okay with that. It's the constant connection business that is the deal breaker for a lot of us. Even folks with the crappiest Internet can play Steam games.

The pirates may have provoked all this, but UBI made the conscious choice to shut us out when there were many other less exclusive options out there.

Neal, frame it up however you like, but at the end of the day, the choice to make constant connection a requirement falls squarely on UBI. They went way too far.

Don't use a bomb to put out a fire in your living room.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by sober

So whats the solution regarding SH5 then ?

No real solution, mate. It stinks but it's just becoming a fact of life. I will repeat my opinion, that if this or any copy protection does not shut out 100% of piracy, they should scrap it immediately. But if it does manage to work, then I can live with it knowing that everyone playing SH5 or any game has paid for it just like me.

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

True, but there has to be a better way than forcing constant internet connection for a 1 player game.

Periodic online verification? OK, can understand that.

No off-line play mode between repeat verifications?
Really, really stupid and insufferably intrusive (what a lovely piece of alliteration ).

Cheers

p.s. pirates are thieves, pure and simple. One big problem is that nobody EVER reports people they know to be pirates. There's an odd moral code that says "when a friend breaks the law they don't really break the law". It's not a code to which I subscribe, but this sort of 'tribal thinking' is a significant root cause of many injustices i.e. it is inherently in conflict with the concept of a rule of law in which all are equal.

Phew. Off the soap box now....

I know, periodic online verification would be a better compromise, I agree. I suppose the pirates can get around it too easily if it is periodic online verification

And yeah, I know a lot of pirates. No, not the pure evil kind who spend time and energy developing the cracks, but regular good people who cannot afford or would rather not spend the $ to buy, and rationalize it with homilies like "if I like the game, I always buy it". Right, whatever. In all honesty, probably every one of us has played a game or two (or 200) without buying it, so I am not throwing stones. But I can sure see why Ubisoft and other game companies want to stop that. And I can live with that. It is their property until the person forks over the $$ to play. Until then, no pay, no play.

Someone told me, "yes, but if the pirates cannot crack it, they still won't buy it." Well, if the pirates cannot crack it, then all games will adopt the copy protection and then the pirates won't play anything without paying for it. If thieves try to break into my house in order to steal my stuff, and I put on some locks that keep them out, you are correct, they won't knock on my door and ask to buy my stuff. But they sure won't be stealing my stuff, that's all I care about. (There, Letum, is an analogy).

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

In all honesty, probably every one of us has played a game or two (or 200) without buying it, so I am not throwing stones.

I haven't. Hand on heart, I swear to... whatever you like... God if you want... that I've bought every single game I've played, no exceptions.

So... can I throw stones now?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by sabretwo

True, but your bank doesn't require you to come in during office hours every time you need to make a withdrawl and do a live biometric scan.

Yeah? If the bank thieves are able to easily crack people's pin codes and steal their money--yes, you would have to come in every time you need to make a withdrawl and do a live biometric scan. And you would be glad to do it!

This is the part that vexes me. To my knowedge, Steam works. Having the game phone home once in a blue moon to verify legitimacy, I have no problem with that. I think most of us here would be okay with that. It's the constant connection business that is the deal breaker for a lot of us. Even folks with the crappiest Internet can play Steam games.

The pirates may have provoked all this, but UBI made the conscious choice to shut us out when there were many other less exclusive options out there.

Neal, this does fall on UBI.

Either Ubi wants to run their own Steam system (not sure that's smart), or they have heard that Steam games are cracked on Day 1 (everyone claims this).

sabre, I say it falls on pirates, but we can disagree here, and I am not going to try and talk you out of your position.

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

I haven't. Hand on heart, I swear to... whatever you like... God if you want... that I've bought every single game I've played, no exceptions.

So... can I throw stones now?

Lol, yeah, but the problem is, who to throw them at? That's one reason why the rules here ask that we don't discuss pirated games, so no one feels pressured to come forward and get stoned...

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Lol, yeah, but the problem is, who to throw them at?

Slow children

[sabretwo]

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

True, but there has to be a better way than forcing constant internet connection for a 1 player game.

Periodic online verification? OK, can understand that.

No off-line play mode between repeat verifications?
Really, really stupid and insufferably intrusive (what a lovely piece of alliteration ).

Cheers

p.s. pirates are thieves, pure and simple. One big problem is that nobody EVER reports people they know to be pirates. There's an odd moral code that says "when a friend breaks the law they don't really break the law". It's not a code to which I subscribe, but this sort of 'tribal thinking' is a significant root cause of many injustices i.e. it is inherently in conflict with the concept of a rule of law in which all are equal.

Phew. Off the soap box now....

Well articulated, Steeltrap...almost prosaic.

[Steeltrap]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

....so no one feels pressured to come forward and get stoned...

You sure you don't want to rephrase that?

(I can hear it now: "I didn't inhale")