[Mission Editor] AI doesn't react

[Asakura]

Hello everyone!

I have a quite annoying problem with the Silent Hunter 4 (v1.4) mission editor and I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong. I was directed to this forum by a co-skipper who says here on Subsim, someone will surely be able to help me out.

What happened so far? I created a test mission in the mission editor to get used to settings, waypoint system and so on. Roughly, I put in a minefield, my sub and a japanese warship right in front of me. I start the mission, the japanese warship obviously opens fire. I kept playing around with the settings until I started working on a second, more serious mission. I did everything just the same as I did in the first mission (as far as I can see in the editor). I put in a japanese taskforce heading towards Midway, and in order to intercept it, I placed two player-controlled submarines (is going to be multiplayer-cooperative) and a couple of US ships heading towards the Japanese. Waypoints are all set, interception works.

The big problem: The AI doesn't do anything but heading towards their waypoint! Meaning the Japanese do not open fire on either my surfaced sub or the US ships. Also, the US ships do not open fire on the japanese taskforce. I recognize the Japanese starting evasive maneuvers when I fire torpedos at them, but afterwards they go back to direct course towards their waypoint, not firing or keeping evading.

I hope someone can help me out on this! I desperately tried everything to get it to work, but I'm out of ideas what might be the reason. I'm looking forward to your hints, thanks alot in advance.

there is something with detection in the game so if things are spawned already within range then the AI wont "see" them since they arent "new" contacts and then the game ignores them as they would any known contact you are already aware of.

in other words the game acts as thou you have told it to ignore them, if its not auto detected by the AI then the AI wont engage to attack


move your ships farther back so they "come into range" and they will then detect each other and act as they should

also have a look at the "missions" forum and there are links to help you with mission building tips

[peabody]

Originally Posted by Asakura

Hello everyone!

I have a quite annoying problem with the Silent Hunter 4 (v1.4) mission editor and I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong. I was directed to this forum by a co-skipper who says here on Subsim, someone will surely be able to help me out.

What happened so far? I created a test mission in the mission editor to get used to settings, waypoint system and so on. Roughly, I put in a minefield, my sub and a japanese warship right in front of me. I start the mission, the japanese warship obviously opens fire. I kept playing around with the settings until I started working on a second, more serious mission. I did everything just the same as I did in the first mission (as far as I can see in the editor). I put in a japanese taskforce heading towards Midway, and in order to intercept it, I placed two player-controlled submarines (is going to be multiplayer-cooperative) and a couple of US ships heading towards the Japanese. Waypoints are all set, interception works.

The big problem: The AI doesn't do anything but heading towards their waypoint! Meaning the Japanese do not open fire on either my surfaced sub or the US ships. Also, the US ships do not open fire on the japanese taskforce. I recognize the Japanese starting evasive maneuvers when I fire torpedos at them, but afterwards they go back to direct course towards their waypoint, not firing or keeping evading.

I hope someone can help me out on this! I desperately tried everything to get it to work, but I'm out of ideas what might be the reason. I'm looking forward to your hints, thanks alot in advance.

Try checking two things:

1 Make sure the date of you mission, to make sure they are actually enemies. The mission editor defaults to 1940 and they are not enemies at that time.

2. Try moving the ships real close to each other. Zoom in on the editor and get them close and if they fire at each other then that is the problem. The game is not even close to realistic on the distance. There is a setting in the game files to change that, I don't remember where right now. Possibly in the CFG folder.
A lot of times the ships are actually a lot farther apart then you think they are, so try that. If getting them real close solves the problem, then we can look for the settings to change it. I am sure someone could tell you right from memory but I will have to look for it.

Peabody

Edit: Well Webster beat me to it....so you can try his idea too and we can figure out what is causing this in your mission.

Originally Posted by peabody

Edit: Well Webster beat me to it....so you can try his idea too and we can figure out what is causing this in your mission.

well you know more about that stuff then me but i thought if ships were already within detection range then they would not get reported or fire at each other because they wouldnt see each other?

[Asakura]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

there is something with detection in the game so if things are spawned already within range then the AI wont "see" them since they arent "new" contacts and then the game ignores them as they would any known contact you are already aware of.

in other words the game acts as thou you have told it to ignore them, if its not auto detected by the AI then the AI wont engage to attack


move your ships farther back so they "come into range" and they will then detect each other and act as they should

Hmmm but why does the warship in my first test mission fire at me when I surface right in front of it? I am only like 1000m ahead of it (periscope depth as well), and when I surface, it evades and fires. Since I am that close, it wouldn't fire if the "being in range of sight"-problem was the case here. Or is it because I started in periscope depth?

I just modified my mission to the situation that my sub still starts in range of sight (about 7500m) with the japanese taskforce, but this time I started it off in a depth of 30m. I started the mission and drove towards the taskforce with full speed ahead. I recognized the destroyers breaking slightly out of formation, so they somewhat reacted to me this time (which is a big improvement already ^^). But still, none of the japanese ships opened fire when I surfaced?
So I guess I really have to start outside of range of sight and - most likely - dived? But how much distance does it approximately have to be? Since I want this mission to be multiplayer-cooperative and there's no way to speed up the game speed, it might take a long time to reach the taskforce. Do you know anything about a "minimum" distance?

also have a look at the "missions" forum and there are links to help you with mission building tips

I can't find a "missions"-forum here in the forum overview. Would you be so nice and give me a link to that section?

Thanks alot so far for your advice!! Hopefully I can get this mission to work soon.

EDIT: @peabody: Just read your post after I finished this answer. ^^ Thank you for your help as well. Actually, my mission indeed is dated before Japan and the US declared war! O.O My mission was like 6 months too early. Good Lord, if that's the problem I'm seriously gonna bite in my table...

EDIT #2: OH - MY - GOD!! peabody was absolutely right! My mission date was set six months before Pearl Harbor and the declaration of war. I changed the mission date to end of December 1941 and now the japanese taskforce engages me as it should.
Seriously Ubisoft, historical correctness is nice and all, but this is too much for Europeans like me! *lol* Thanks alot to you guys, now I can finish up the mission!

Originally Posted by Asakura

Hmmm but why does the warship in my first test mission fire at me when I surface right in front of it?

Or is it because I started in periscope depth?

you answered it yourself, you werent detected yet because you were submerged so once detected they fired at you.

the key is in the detection or not being detected because your already too close. i could be wrong about weather they will fire at you or not but it does effect your gun crew firing, if the AI doesnt report it as a new contact its like they are blind sometimes lol.

you can have trouble with things not being reported if they are already in range so if you have trouble with things aproaching unannounced then check how close you have them to your sub

i see you got your avatar

I can't find a "missions"-forum here in the forum overview. Would you be so nice and give me a link to that section?

here you go

SH4 Mission Designers' Forum: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=222

and the best forum to get the most help and quickest reply to your sh4 mod questions is

SH4 Fleet Boat Mods Workshop: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

[peabody]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

well you know more about that stuff then me but i thought if ships were already within detection range then they would not get reported or fire at each other because they wouldnt see each other?

No, No, I do not know more than you, we sometimes know different things and we get an answer by putting our heads together.

I had not heard of the "already in sight" and I never tested for it either, but I don't know if I ever did a mission where they were already that close. So I'll tuck that one away in case I have problems and don't know why.

@Asakura. That is the way I try to do all my troubleshooting, look at the simple stuff first, then proceed to the more difficult. Like if your computer doesn't work.....Look to see if it is plugged in first. Then get out the hammer.

Peabody

Originally Posted by peabody

I had not heard of the "already in sight" and I never tested for it either, but I don't know if I ever did a mission where they were already that close. So I'll tuck that one away in case I have problems and don't know why.

Peabody

its something to do with the choice you get to take action or ignore a new contact, there is a spot where it acts like you told it to ignore the contact so your crew does just that and acts like its not there. beyond things not spawning if its too close theres something that makes the dtection spazz out so sometimes you get no report of a contact and a plane or DD can run right up to you and the gunners wont fire and the watch doesnt report it. im still not 100% certain myself how it works but if i get detection issues i push the object back far enough away untill i get the "ship sighted" or "plane spotted" report then i know things will react as they should.

Originally Posted by peabody

Look to see if it is plugged in first. Then get out the hammer.

Peabody

it sounds so simple but that reminds me of the time my mother once called me to come over because her freezer quit working.

by the time i got over there (i fix air conditioners and freezers) i found out that it had actually stopped working the day before and when it still wasnt working in the morning (i guess she thought magic elves were going to fix it overnight ) she got out the coolers and stuffed them with what she could save and she was giving the rest away to the people next door before it defrosted.

when i looked to see what happened i saw it was unplugged so i asked about it and she said she didnt unplug it, then she said ohh but i did pass a broom behind it to clean the dust out right before the freezer broke talk about obvious, but she never thought to check the plug.

[Asakura]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

you answered it yourself, you werent detected yet because you were submerged so once detected they fired at you.

the key is in the detection or not being detected because your already too close. i could be wrong about weather they will fire at you or not but it does effect your gun crew firing, if the AI doesnt report it as a new contact its like they are blind sometimes lol.

you can have trouble with things not being reported if they are already in range so if you have trouble with things aproaching unannounced then check how close you have them to your sub

So if I'm dived and in sight range of the enemy, there should be no problem with the AI. Good to know that for future missions. Thanks. ^^

i see you got your avatar

Yes, Neal did even more than I asked for. I simply asked for switching to the female avatars, but he put in that little avatar and a custom japanese title right away! I love it! ^^

here you go

SH4 Mission Designers' Forum: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=222

and the best forum to get the most help and quickest reply to your sh4 mod questions is

SH4 Fleet Boat Mods Workshop: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

Thanks again, I'll head there for some hints and info.

Originally Posted by peabody

No, No, I do not know more than you, we sometimes know different things and we get an answer by putting our heads together.

That's the spirit! It doesn't matter how much one knows, as he still doesn't know everything. Two minds working together are always better when it comes to troubleshooting.

@Asakura. That is the way I try to do all my troubleshooting, look at the simple stuff first, then proceed to the more difficult.

I guess it's my thing to think complicated first. I started looking for mistakes in unit properties, objective settings, triggers and events and so on. I also went through the mission parameters, but I would've never thought of the date being the problem - instead I changed weather settings in that panel. >.<
To be honest, I didn't know the exact date of the Pearl Harbor-incident. I only know about 1st of September 1939, when Poland was invaded and England and France declared war, so that the war in Europe began. But when the US declared war to Japan was unknown to me - until now. I guess I'll remember that date from now on.

Once again, thanks to both of you for your fast and accurate help.