Fire in the hole! Now the Pakis are taking shots at US helos

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kipparikalle

Skybird, why such a hatred against people of Pakistan?

They just are inconnect people man, its not like theyre hiding Osama bling O laden in their fridge

Don't mistake "hate" with "determination". I just think the wars of the past 7 years have been handled in a very stupid way. The war in Afghanistan was given up far too early - and almost everybody knowing the region and the history of it a bit said so. But Bush and the Neocons wanted their stupid little adventure in Iraq, and so everything that should have been massed in Afghanistan to give Pakistan a strong message, instead went into this unneeded, unwanted WAR OF CHOICE in Iraq. Now we see half-hearted attempts to tell the Pakistani to stop supporting the taleban and providing them shelter on their territory. Íf you think you need to wage war, do it with determination, with focus, push as hard as is needed and then some more, and be sure of your motives. With Iraq I have a problem because it was unneeded, and counterproductive, and a war of unlegitimized attack anyway. with Afghanistan, after 9/11 giving shelter for the attackers behind that strike, my problem is that it was done without orientation from the beginning, and still so, instead there are plenty of illusions. The US instead should have completely stayed focussed on pakistan and Afghanistan exclusively. It also should have remained to be an American war, not a NATO issue, NATO simply has no business there, and remember: after 9/11 the Us refused to call for military assistance. If it later acts stupdily and brings itself into a situation where it wants and needs NATO help, then this is no legitimatiopn to do so by tterms of the defense case as stated in article 5 of the NATO treaty. I see no realistic orientation there in the present, and for the future. Thus I reject to see my country getting entangled there more and more, all for nothing but tapping around blindly in the Afghan maze. That is not what I am willing to send soldiers into battle for. That is not taking the responsibility for your men serious - that is wasting their life and health instead, for nothing. In other words: you commit a crime against your own side. conclusion: without Pakistan being taken out of the formula, there is no realistic perspective to ever bring Afghanistan to any "successful" end. You keep on fighting a useless and unnecessary war then, so: pull out. but if you want to "win" there, you must be willing to take the fight to the Pakistani side and hurting it so badly that they reconsider the answer to the question wether their support for the Taleban is worth it, or not. Battles are not won by caring for your enemy and saving him from harm - but by crushing him as badly as possible. If you are not ready to will that, don't wage war, and pull out. the choice you make regqarding your future goals dictates the tools you need to implement in order to get there. The methods of today - do not work, whioch after 7 years should have become obvious.