Woman throws a shoe at Hillary Clinton

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

One of my moral values are only to obey authority that acts in your best interests and respects you and your rights. If they start using their power for wrong... well, I could always form my own breakaway state if things got too bad

And that best interest of the state's authority is what I have learned to complete mistrust. Ask Neal - around ten years ago I sounded exactly like you, and he was the one asking me why I expect him to pay taxes as if it were a natural thing and morally fine. It is neither natural, nor morally fine. It is one group of people claiming rights to loot and to command others.

Sorry, I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. That's OK though, seeing as English isn't your native language.

If you want things done by the state for other states, like the aid you mentioned in your first reply, and want in general some things getting done that you are willing to support, this does not give you the right to take wealth from others to invest their wealth into what you want to see being done yourself. You can ask others whether they ocnitrbute to your cause, or not. But the decision mus be theirs, because they do not owe you obedience. You can invest that value by others for projects you like that the others give voluntarily. But I deny there is a right by people to tell other people that they MUST give away their wealth to see it invested into projects that they do not are for or even oppose.

I do not go into deeper detail here again, I did that on several according threads over the past 12 or 18 months. I have come - after years - to a position where I put the complete idea of having a state, and the idea of democracy itself into question. These two and me will not become friends again, never. I'm done with both.