Religious Poll

Skybird · 08-11-10, 08:36 AM

@ Lance

I do not start discussions where I try to convince others of my religious convictions. Criticism of a relgion, Islam in case of your reference, is something different in this case, because mainly it effects fields of politics and our societies, and I would give a damn for Islam if people falling for it just would keep it a private issue that they do not want to effect society. Unfortunately, the islamic agenda is being driven into our societies day in day out, it does not differ between plitics and religion. Thus, it inevitably always is politics, and to me, it is more politics than religion.

If you want to compare me to Castout's virtuous preaching that he intends as a form of missionising, you would need to show me where I start threads on atheism and trying to missionise people into it. I don't, and in a longer ago past at best started a thread on Pat Condell - and even this is long ago.

But I react to people reserving the right that they may sing their religious song and the neighbourhood just has to listen to it each time they do. so if they show up on the scene, so do I, and when they keep private what is a private thing anyway, then I stay put, too. The magic word is: reciprocity. Save me from you relgious sermoins, and I save you from my atheist criticsm. Bring your sermon upon us and upon me, and I am going after you. That simple. because in a scular society like ours, many people think like I do - and do not want to be bothered by other people's religous mission time and again. Like I also do not want to listen to your radio time and again - so the hell keep the volumen at a levbel where others must not listen to your music, too.

It is illogical to label atheism a religion. You want to give it a bad name: that of religion. But atheism is no relgion. It is the rejection of theistic relgion, and the demand for evidence for theistic claims. You could as well conclude that refusing to learn how to drive a car is a form of car driving. It is absurd.

Neon Samurai brought it to the point when calling it "sermonising". I reserve the right to deand that your freedom of speech ends where you demand me to listen to your sermon even if I do not want that, so that you imply that I must leave the public place/space, because you claim it for yourself. That is kind of an abuse of free speech. Also, it is known by now where religious threads lead to - right onto that track we are now on, again.

If I would do like this on atheism, and launch threads on it time and again, you would not so much call it free speech, but me trying to dominate the forum and driving people away in disgust. Having a discussion on religious implications of some matters, is one thing, for example if discussing the impact of scientific insight on human history and culture and how it changed it. But "sermonising" is something different. Talking about religion in a context that is not religion in itself, is one thing. Propagating religion and why it is so nice to believe in this deity or that goddess, makes missionising the name of the game - and that is something very different than just "talking about religion".

In other words: keep your radio volume such that it does not bother your neighboiurs.And if you park a pickup loaded with that certain brown smelly stuff in the street, don't be surprised if some neigbours become the more upset the longer you wait to remove it again. Missionising means to push religion into the public space - and then it is not religious only anymore but becomes politics, and claim for social influence and power and effcting secular soceity. I do not wish any relgion to shape and form secular societies. Becasue that is the explciti end of secularism - but my freedom and our freedom is worth a thousand times more than any religion's desires or claims for untouchability. and that is why defending freedom can lead to situations where even offending religion can become a moral obligation and a civil duty, if you are serous about freedom.

Keep thy religion to thyself. That's where it belongs - and nowhere else.

08-11-10, 08:36 AM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,629 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	@ Lance I do not start discussions where I try to convince others of my religious convictions. Criticism of a relgion, Islam in case of your reference, is something different in this case, because mainly it effects fields of politics and our societies, and I would give a damn for Islam if people falling for it just would keep it a private issue that they do not want to effect society. Unfortunately, the islamic agenda is being driven into our societies day in day out, it does not differ between plitics and religion. Thus, it inevitably always is politics, and to me, it is more politics than religion. If you want to compare me to Castout's virtuous preaching that he intends as a form of missionising, you would need to show me where I start threads on atheism and trying to missionise people into it. I don't, and in a longer ago past at best started a thread on Pat Condell - and even this is long ago. But I react to people reserving the right that they may sing their religious song and the neighbourhood just has to listen to it each time they do. so if they show up on the scene, so do I, and when they keep private what is a private thing anyway, then I stay put, too. The magic word is: reciprocity. Save me from you relgious sermoins, and I save you from my atheist criticsm. Bring your sermon upon us and upon me, and I am going after you. That simple. because in a scular society like ours, many people think like I do - and do not want to be bothered by other people's religous mission time and again. Like I also do not want to listen to your radio time and again - so the hell keep the volumen at a levbel where others must not listen to your music, too. It is illogical to label atheism a religion. You want to give it a bad name: that of religion. But atheism is no relgion. It is the rejection of theistic relgion, and the demand for evidence for theistic claims. You could as well conclude that refusing to learn how to drive a car is a form of car driving. It is absurd. Neon Samurai brought it to the point when calling it "sermonising". I reserve the right to deand that your freedom of speech ends where you demand me to listen to your sermon even if I do not want that, so that you imply that I must leave the public place/space, because you claim it for yourself. That is kind of an abuse of free speech. Also, it is known by now where religious threads lead to - right onto that track we are now on, again. If I would do like this on atheism, and launch threads on it time and again, you would not so much call it free speech, but me trying to dominate the forum and driving people away in disgust. Having a discussion on religious implications of some matters, is one thing, for example if discussing the impact of scientific insight on human history and culture and how it changed it. But "sermonising" is something different. Talking about religion in a context that is not religion in itself, is one thing. Propagating religion and why it is so nice to believe in this deity or that goddess, makes missionising the name of the game - and that is something very different than just "talking about religion". In other words: keep your radio volume such that it does not bother your neighboiurs.And if you park a pickup loaded with that certain brown smelly stuff in the street, don't be surprised if some neigbours become the more upset the longer you wait to remove it again. Missionising means to push religion into the public space - and then it is not religious only anymore but becomes politics, and claim for social influence and power and effcting secular soceity. I do not wish any relgion to shape and form secular societies. Becasue that is the explciti end of secularism - but my freedom and our freedom is worth a thousand times more than any religion's desires or claims for untouchability. and that is why defending freedom can lead to situations where even offending religion can become a moral obligation and a civil duty, if you are serous about freedom. Keep thy religion to thyself. That's where it belongs - and nowhere else. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-11-10 at 08:51 AM.