stock v1.5 issues that need fixing

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I would like to respectfully ask that everyone try to stay on topic here, and that is listing SH4 1.5 Stock bugs.

The OP is trying to do something here, and I would really like to see him succeed.

I'm sure the OP will allow for debate as to what is and is not a bug after he has obtained a list to work with.

Thank you for your cooperation.

yes this is my plan:

1 first assemble a list of all known issues
2 next have a discussion to decide what is and what isnt fixable
3 then make a revised list and that will be the working list for the mod

the size of the content required for each fix may determine what must be left out if anything but anything that is left out will be done as an ad-on mod to complete the mod as a whole.

Originally Posted by GOZO

@ Webster and others.

At least that bug can have an explanation. Check this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=142907


/OB

i added it to the list but i didnt see any real fix in that post so i put it in the needing to be fixed section.

IMO saving and restarting isnt a fix its just a way to get around it.

Originally Posted by Lexandro

No german boats I've played in Sh4 can hear on the water unless they get the final upgrade which is mounted down on the keel exactly the same as the US boats have from the start. I didnt argue about U-boat hydrophones because they work as intended. Indeed in every patrol I have done prior to gaining the final hydrophone for the Germans I had learned to dive to periscope depth to get the hydrophone head down in to the water.

Engine noise from onboard equipment and machinery from your own boat is always an issue with passive systems. Placement of the head on boats was always as far forwards as possible to try and counter it. The game models this as a 90 degree ark to the rear that blocks sound reception by your machinery. A destroyer on the surface that has "gone dark" can detect a noisey surface contact. Relative to a standard surface ship, a sub on the surface makes little noise, making ranged detection of it on the surface with passive sonar extremely difficlut. In reverse the sub can detect other noisey vessels (such as merchants) easier by relative sound levels. A sub would detect any surface contact via passive asdic/sonar long before a normal surface vessel would.

In particular surface detection by shipping is normally done by Radar and visual means as the sound detection is HIGHLY dependant on the operator of the device, the devices range, and features of the aperatus. The fact that in the game you have a sonar man who is well trained and the Allies have superior sonar technology plays a major factor in those surface detections.

Britain and the US were miles ahead in asdic/sonar technology and radar technology than Germany in WW2. The devices were of a much higher technical level and implementation than the German counterparts. In sofar as the game is modeled if its in the water it can detect surface noise.

There are a plethora of technical details in asdic/sonar transmission & reception that are not modeled in the game. If you would like to know more try here.

Histrorical Naval Ships Association

if you look at post #4 here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...dge+underwater

i think Rockin Robbins explains the issue quite well.

[Mikhayl]

That's all good and well, now call me stubborn if you like, but the link and that thread never adress anywhere German hydrophones ! The link I posted is specifically about the GHG and a bit about the Balkon Gerat, and it clearly says that on the surface with the diesel engines running, the hydrophones do work of course, but they're useless. Imagine for a second, first the sound of the waves running against the hull and the exhaust and propeller noises, but also the sonarman with his poor headphone, trying to pick something between these noises while having 2 ~1500hp engines running at some 10 meters from him, crew movement around and so on. I'd like someone more savvy on uboats speaking on this, but I would bet the sonarman was simply not at his station while surfaced. I've never read anywhere "we were running 15 knots on the surface when the sonarman picked up propeller noises at 25km".
And that's my point (again), and since pictures speak louder than words :



That's with a GHG, and that's just plain silly. Boat stopped with a mirrorlike sea, ok, why not. But that ? Now whether it's in the "bug" or "enhancement" category is another thing, but don't tell me that's "as in real life".
Besides this reminded me of a genuine bug : on the screen, the contact is at 349°, it's impossible to pick up with a GHG since it has a dead angle between 340 and 020. That's because of a mistake in the equipment.upc file, when you choose a GHG, it actually installs a Balkon Gerat.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I would like to respectfully ask that everyone try to stay on topic here, and that is listing SH4 1.5 Stock bugs.

The OP is trying to do something here, and I would really like to see him succeed.

I'm sure the OP will allow for debate as to what is and is not a bug after he has obtained a list to work with.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Okay, point taken. Then consider this. True, having the UZO on the bridge when the boat is submerged is unrealistic, but so is having it on the bridge when surfaced. The UZO is only brought to the bridge when making a surfaced attack run - it doesn't just sit there waiting to be used. That bug needs to be fixed with a command to bring it up, and then and only then should it be seen at all.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Okay, point taken. Then consider this. True, having the UZO on the bridge when the boat is submerged is unrealistic, but so is having it on the bridge when surfaced. The UZO is only brought to the bridge when making a surfaced attack run - it doesn't just sit there waiting to be used. That bug needs to be fixed with a command to bring it up, and then and only then should it be seen at all.

is an object still usable when its not visable? in other words if i make the uzo visable underwater=false and visable on surface=false then it should always be invisable. so if as you say they only took it out when needed it would not be seen all the time. but will it still work when you hit the uzo key if it is invisable? :hmm:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

That's all good and well, now call me stubborn if you like, but the link and that thread never adress anywhere German hydrophones ! The link I posted is specifically about the GHG and a bit about the Balkon Gerat, and it clearly says that on the surface with the diesel engines running, the hydrophones do work of course, but they're useless. Imagine for a second, first the sound of the waves running against the hull and the exhaust and propeller noises, but also the sonarman with his poor headphone, trying to pick something between these noises while having 2 ~1500hp engines running at some 10 meters from him, crew movement around and so on. I'd like someone more savvy on uboats speaking on this, but I would bet the sonarman was simply not at his station while surfaced. I've never read anywhere "we were running 15 knots on the surface when the sonarman picked up propeller noises at 25km".
And that's my point (again), and since pictures speak louder than words :

That's with a GHG, and that's just plain silly. Boat stopped with a mirrorlike sea, ok, why not. But that ? Now whether it's in the "bug" or "enhancement" category is another thing, but don't tell me that's "as in real life".
Besides this reminded me of a genuine bug : on the screen, the contact is at 349°, it's impossible to pick up with a GHG since it has a dead angle between 340 and 020. That's because of a mistake in the equipment.upc file, when you choose a GHG, it actually installs a Balkon Gerat.

added to list: ghg dead angle and reduce german hydrophones effectiveness on surface

[Mikhayl]

For the GHG, I think the stock settings are fine excepted for the surface thing. It's just that when the F10 screen says "GHG", you actually have a balkon gerat as can be verified in external view. It's a mistake in equipment.upc, if you look the GHG entry, the "externallink3D" or something points to "balkon gerat" instead of "GHG_9" (it refers to the label of the object in senzori_uboot.dat)

[aanker]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

what are the issues with the stock 1.5 game that need to be fixed?

i understand some mods already contain fixes in them but i'm looking to specify just the fixes themselves for creating a stand alone mod with only the needed fixes and nothing else.

the first step is to gather a list of all the known issues in the stock 1.5 game that have known fixes or mods that fix them. my goal is to remove the fixes to make a stand alone fixes only mod that doesnt make other changes.

........

list of things talked about that i think can be fixed in the game:

........

Photo Recon missions are bugged

Unless I misunderstand what you're trying to accomplish .......

- here's a 'must have' stand-alone fix for the Photo Recons:

Dgrayson (over at UBI) did a heck of a nice job fixing all of the photo recons for Stock & TMO.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5/m/7391059166

Art

[Lexandro]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

For the GHG, I think the stock settings are fine excepted for the surface thing. It's just that when the F10 screen says "GHG", you actually have a balkon gerat as can be verified in external view. It's a mistake in equipment.upc, if you look the GHG entry, the "externallink3D" or something points to "balkon gerat" instead of "GHG_9" (it refers to the label of the object in senzori_uboot.dat)

I had not noticed that one, now I understand were your coming from. Well spotted that man.

Originally Posted by aanker

Unless I misunderstand what you're trying to accomplish .......

- here's a 'must have' stand-alone fix for the Photo Recons:

Dgrayson (over at UBI) did a heck of a nice job fixing all of the photo recons for Stock & TMO.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5/m/7391059166

Art

Excellent find, added that to my current mods running. A perfect example of what is wanted for the project. Thank you.

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

Hydrophones rotate 361 degrees, i.e. 359, 360, 000, 001.

Pipes won't stop leaking even after repairs are made.

Various gauges not working in interior views at various stations.

There is nothing wrong with this . This is just a visual reminder that the hull is damaged and needs to be fixed at port . Remember that this was a feature and the only way of knowing about hull damage before the hull percentage number was patched in . This is more realistic in my view than hull percentage . You just know there is damage by the broken pipes but you dont know how much . If you have been depth charged than you should return to port as soon as you can .

Originally Posted by sober

There is nothing wrong with this . This is just a visual reminder that the hull is damaged and needs to be fixed at port . Remember that this was a feature and the only way of knowing about hull damage before the hull percentage number was patched in . This is more realistic in my view than hull percentage . You just know there is damage by the broken pipes but you dont know how much . If you have been depth charged than you should return to port as soon as you can .

maybe something could be done to switch it to water dripping or something after repairs so it still looks broken but not as much water leaking? :hmm: just a thought.

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by sober

There is nothing wrong with this . This is just a visual reminder that the hull is damaged and needs to be fixed at port . Remember that this was a feature and the only way of knowing about hull damage before the hull percentage number was patched in . This is more realistic in my view than hull percentage . You just know there is damage by the broken pipes but you dont know how much . If you have been depth charged than you should return to port as soon as you can .

I happen to see it as a bug, or perhaps 'design flaw' would suit you better? If you don't see it that way, that's okay. Either way, as I've stated before I just don't think this is the place to debate it.

I know this isn't my thread, but I've just seen too many good ideas get lost in the clutter, and I'm just hoping to see at least the beginnings of this stay organized. This may seem presumptuous, but I really don't have anything else to contribute to helping make this mod a reality.

[tomoose]

Didn't the pipes eventually stop leaking in SH3 once the damage control party worked on it (unless it was beyond repair).
Why on earth this wasn't incorporated into SHIV is beyond me.

Sometimes I think the Subsim community is way too forgiving towards the devs with some of the seemingly simple yet glaringly obvious (albeit mostly eye or ear candy) flaws in the game.

[Nisgeis]

All that has gone before is part of the reason I have kept well away from this thread.

Can we agree that this thread should be used to just list what people believe in their opinion is a bug?

Later on, after all the 'bug' reports have come flying in thick and fast would it not be a simple matter to put up a multiple poll with all the bugs on. If people believe it's a bug, they can vote for it to be fixed. After the vote closes, any bug with a 50% or higher vote gets put into the community fix, anything that doesn't, doesn't.

You will never have a community patch that will delight everyone, as it will likely contain at least one fix that you don't want. But will that put you off using it? It would be heartbreaking if a tremendous amount of effort went into it, if no one will use it.

Just my thoughts.