Should females be allowed in the millitary

[Sulikate]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

As long as they aren't forced to serve and choose it voluntarily I don't see any reason to deny them something that men are allowed to do.

I second that.

As long as we pretend to live in an inclusive, democratic society how can one reasonably exclude fully 50% (slightly greater than 50% in most regions) of the population from the responsibility of actively defending it?
Good Hunting

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

As long as we pretend to live in an inclusive, democratic society how can one reasonably exclude fully 50% (slightly greater than 50% in most regions) of the population from the responsibility of actively defending it?
Good Hunting

I disagree. I think that if there was a good argument for excludeing women, than they should be excluded at the cost of fairness and equality, but there isn't.

[August]

Originally Posted by Letum

If anything women should raise standards.
Allowing women will raise applications and give the selection people a wider choice to
cream off the best.

I don't follow your reasoning Letum.

What happens in real life is around 20% of male and 80% of female applicants are not physically able to handle the physical rigors of Infantry combat training (and therefore the RL combat situations the training is designed to test suitability for). This disparity leads to accusations of sexism, which forces the Army to lower the training standards so that more women can pass. The overall effect is a less able infantry force with higher casualty rates.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by August

I don't follow your reasoning Letum.

What happens in real life is around 20% of male and 80% of female applicants are not physically able to handle the physical rigors of Infantry combat training (and therefore the RL combat situations the training is designed to test suitability for). This disparity leads to accusations of sexism, which forces the Army to lower the training standards so that more women can pass. The overall effect is a less able infantry force with higher casualty rates.

I follow what you are saying and agree that it is essential that this is prevented.

I shall try to explain my point with a example:

Say the army needed 100 soldiers to fight.

In scenario A only men are allowed to fight.
200 men volunteer and that means that the top 50% are selected. (50% of 200 is
100)

In scenario B both sexes are allowed to fight.
200 men volunteer and 50 women volunteer. This means that the top 40% are
selected. (40% of 250 is 100)

Assuming that at least 1 woman makes the grade in scenario B, the standard of the
100 soldiers will be higher than that resulting from scenario A because a higher
percentile (60%-100% as opposed to 50%-100%) has been creamed off.

The numbers used here are for example only.

[Platapus]

The real question should be "should women continue to serve in combat".

In case anyone has not been keeping up with current events women are in combat and doing an honourable job too.

[August]

Letum, Mikhayl:

I fully agree it should work like that, unfortunately its been my experience that it doesn't. Politics will raise its ugly head like it always does.

[Skybird]

Allow anybody to the military who voluntarily choses to join - and can handle the duties and challenges - physically, mentally and emotionally, and if it can be managed by organisation procedures. Where, for example, muscle strength and physical stamina is demanded, females have to pass the standard set by the males. Where communication or social competence is demanded, males have to pass the standard set by females. You get the idea. Take the best of both sexes and let that be the standard by which men and women can qualify or fail for service.

I see no reason, if she can bear the challenges physically and mentally, why a woman should not become active combat soldier in a special unit, or drive a fighter plane in hot action. and a female as division general - why not, if she is competent by the same standards that are used to estimate her male colleagues. And I have troubles to imagine how it could be a good idea to have mixed crews in isolated, crowded environements like submarines.

My grandpa told me one of the most feared threats at the Eastern front were - Russian units formed of exclusively female snipers. they had a much higher score than male sniper units, and acted more agressive. So don't even try to tell me a woman cannot fight in battle - I take that as total nonsens. she either has the stamina to endure battle and war, or not. If she has it, I have no problem with the idea of women belonging to combat troops.

the Israelis, btw, report that females allowed in units have a balancing, positive overall influence on moral and discipline, and help to raise overall efficiency, and reduce social tensions. I once read a long briefing on it, three or four years ago.

[Ducimus]

In my experience there are VERY FEW things that i haven't seen a woman do, as well as any man can.

Part of my enlistment, i spent in a unit that is the USAF's version of the Navy SeaBee's. During this time, ive seen women lay block, work concrete, frame walls, do foundation work, operate tractors and other assorted heavy equipment, wield, etc, JUST AS WELL AS ANY MAN. Its worth noting that one of my supervisors, according to her, was.. i think she said, the 5th or 8th women ever allowed into this type of unit. Up until that point, it was male only because units of this type operate, and i quote "in remote hostile locations with limited resupply of consumables".

If there was any work that ive done that would show women incapable it would have been masonry and concrete. Ive seen women work concrete pours ALL DAMN DAY, and let me tell you, pouring enough crete to see around 100 transit trucks pass thorugh your jobsite in a single day, every day, is nothing to sneeze at. Every try raking 3 to 4" slump concerte in front of a screed board all day? It hurts, and it burns every muscle in your body. Ive seen women do that all day just as well as any man. My boss, she loved laying cinderblock walls.

Seeing all that, i will very rarely, if ever, buy the excuse of, "I can't do that, its too hard, I'm just a girl", or "She's just a girl, thats too hard for her." Bullschitt, i know better.

Having said that, acutal infantry duty, im not sure about, which is why im not voting in the poll. I have no doubt that a women could perform well as an infantryman. My concern is more over fratrinization, and what should occur if she was ever captured.

[Fish]

We have a female captain on a fregate, Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (F 804)

Originally Posted by Seth8530

Well should they be allowed in, but just not in combat areas, or not at all?

Why not ? We have girls who serve in special comando forces for example and they are good fighters, belive me i saw them in action (and no its not what you thinking damn pervets ) and you would not mess with them .

I have (at least i hope i have) a picture in my computer were young Israel girl hold a heavy machine gun

[Hakahura]

Get over people. Women are in many armed forces around the world.
They do serve at the front, they kill and get killed.
I serve alongside them and so long as they can do their job I don't care if they sit down to pee.
Fraternisation? Oh FFS we are talking about the Armed Forces, not the Boy Scouts.
Capture and rape? What on earth makes anybody think this could only happen to women?
Oh and if you had to serve a stint in the desert what would you rather see every day? Just loads of sweaty blokes, or the occasional sweaty woman?

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

Why not ? We have girls who serve in special comando forces for example and they are good fighters, belive me i saw them in action (and no its not what you thinking damn pervets ) and you would not mess with them .

Can you tell what unit? This is the first ive heard of this.

Can you tell what unit? This is the first ive heard of this.

I don`t know the exact names of unit for girls, therefore i belive that its mix up with boys. However i can tall what i know, when i resived my traning (wich is something like 2 month) i was witness that groups of girls are training the same way. How to shoot, throw greenades and etc... In thise period you don`t know where the army will send you affter the traning was complited. So thats the main reason why i can`t answer to you direct .

Try to search in google if you have free time, i belive you can find there more about it

[RickC Sniper]

Women are already there, but if you "allow" them equal status how can you exempt them if a draft were instated?

Be careful where you tread. Do you want your daughters or granddaughters to be drafted?

I do not.