Flak Gunners in GWX

[ReM]

Giving a guy a flakker status is bad business for him as well as for you

If you stay on the surface he will be killed very quickly....the few times I decided to take planes on, the flakkers blood stained the conning tower

It is a bad investment as well, because indeed these opportunities can be spent on other more important things...

This is pretty accurate though, because, besides a short lived experiment in the Gulf of Biscay with flak-U-boats, the order when sighting planes would be FLUTEN!

[Morts]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

You must be playing a different version to most other folk then :hmm:

Nope playing GWX 1.03 without any AI changing mods

[Jimbuna]

Then bottle your method and patent it....I'll have a crate full

[robj250]

Originally Posted by Morts

Nope playing GWX 1.03 without any AI changing mods

I have qualified my flak gunners. In the SH3, I shot down many, many planes. Just installed 1.03 and I'm going to try to take out some. If you get chopped every time, then the game is not "fair" as NOT every plane survived flak. It will all depend on how many there are. Catalinas are easy targets but you got to get them early before they get near da boot.

I HATE a game where the ODDS are stacked against you. You may think it is fun to "play realism" but where the realism is stacked too difficult, IT IS NO FUN TO PLAY, AND IF YOU PLAY DEAD IS DEAD, THEN YOU MIGHT AS WELL, JUST TURN ON THE GAME, GO OUT AND SINK THE BOAT AND START ANOTHER CAREER OR GO WATCH TV, until your dead. Then turn off the game, go grab a Voka cooler and watch CSI and try to find the clues before the crew do because you got just as much chance of getting the clues before the crew, so forget it, just watch it and have another Voka.

[Morts]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Then bottle your method and patent it....I'll have a crate full

huh

[Telgriff]

Originally Posted by its a viic

I just installed GWX a few weeks ago. I currently am in a viib. Cruising along am 53 and plane spotted. I am in Sept 39. I decide to have a flak gunner take care of the plane which now have turned into two. On their second pass ... flak gun destroyed , gunner dead, down to 90% hull integrity. Yikes!!
I have to tell ya the vanilla with 1.4 patch was pretty easy to shoot down planes, even more so this early in the war. I knew GWX was going to have rabid plane AI but geez. This is craziness. Question. How many of you put alot of stock in flak gunners in GWX? Should I just get one and concentrate on more torpedo petty officers. I think I may just crash dive any time I see a plane. Alot of you have been playing GWX Alot longer than I. What have you all done as far as enemy planes are concerned? I play D.I.D. at 76% difficulty.

Dont even bother with flak gunners, I only keep them on the boat to shoot at small merchants and fishing boats to save torps and deck gun ammo. I attempted to shoot at aircraft once in GWX...the result was 4 dead and 6 injured along with a big dent in my IXB.

[Rose]

Dive!

[Carotio]

Are we mice or men?

Of course we stay surfaced and give them some fight back!

My flak gunner is always in the mood for shooting back...

[Webchessie]

I really like watching the burning aircraft that I hit, but I find that that kind of fun usually ends up with dead crew and beat-up boat. Late in the war and it's always best to heed the call of . . . .

ALARM!

[Iron Budokan]

I don't qual flak gunners, either.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

From Clay Blair's "Hitler's U-boat War - The Hunted 1942-1945"

page 515

... On the third day, March 6, (1944) yet another Swordfish from Chaser, piloted by L.E.B. Bennet, sank a U-boat with depth charges and rockets. She was the U-973 commanded by Klaus Paepenmoller* The British destroyer Boadicea recovered the engineer, Franz Rudolf, and two enlisted men, but one of the latter died on board, leaving two prisoners. They asserted that most of the flak gunners and ammo passers had refused to carry out their duties. If true, it was a rare episode in the highly disciplined U-boat force.
------------------------------------

http://uboat.net/boats/u973.htm

I think this speaks volumes and is a sign of the times.

Flak crews in real life often suffered when facing aircraft... even when successful.

It was standard operating proceedure for aircraft to fire continuously on the flak crew while running in to attack with DC's... to "keep the flak crew's heads down with suppressive fires."

In GWX, when slugging it out with aircraft, I think it is wholly appropriate that there is a sharp risk of losing flak gunners when the player decides to engage rather than evade by diving.

I also feel that the overall results of engaging aircraft in GWX are certainly in line with historical plausibility.

You might shoot down the aircraft... but it is VERY likely that you will have to bleed for it a bit.

[Jimbuna]

Further evidence of the Immersion + historical accuracy of GWX

If your the type that likes 'shoot em ups'...stay on the surface and slug it out, but remember you could pay a heavy price.
If your the type that prefers 'historical accuracy'......AALLLAAAAAAAAAARRMMMMM!! and dive....live to fight another day.

Originally Posted by its a viic

I knew GWX was going to have rabid plane AI but geez. This is craziness.

Nope,that's not craziness.That's the reality,where GWX puts things in their right places.

I would recommend you to read about "U-Flak" concept at
http://www.uboatwar.net/VII.htm.

The idea of U-Boat usage as anti-aircraft boats failed,and Type VII U-Boats,fit with numerous flaks managed to shoot down just a few aircraft.So,all historicans do admit that crash dive was the only suitable option,when U-Boat encountered an aircraft.

That's why,I think GWX Development team made such aircraft AI model.

Good Hunting

[maillemaker]

Yeah, I just finished "Iron Coffins", and the real threat was aircraft towards the end of the War. I was amazed how hour after hour on some days they got radio call after radio call that went:

AIRCRAFT. BOMBED. SINKING. U-XXX.

In fact I was amazed the number of u-boats that were able to send off a radio message.

If anything, I think the game is less realistic than the war was (though I haven't gotten late in the war in the game). It seems like they had almost no chance of getting away from them. Especially for the bit of time when their Metox detectors were actually broadcasting the U-boat's position!

The author basically said it got to the point where if you didn't have a snorkle you were doomed.

One reason the flack u-boats didn't work is the attacking aircraft stopped attacking the u-boats. They would simply circle out of range, calling in more and more aircraft and hunter-killer surface groups until the u-boat tried to dive. Then they would descend on them and blow them to bits.

By the way,maybe a bit off-topic question,but still what is the effective detonation depth of Depth Charges in GWX?

I ask because there were numerous times,when my U-Boat was hit in shallow waters of Celtic Sea,other places in British approaches and even at depthes slightly bigger than 100 metres - about 120 meters or so.

So,where is safe depth starting?