Anyone else annoyed by the water refraction effect?

XanderF · 05-06-07, 09:43 PM

Specifically, referring to the periscope. In Sh3, the water distorted the image into ripples that looked like they ran off the 'scope, and the view solidified from the blurry view through the water.

In Sh4, it's like they took the 3d view, applied some kind of "waving" filter to it, and then blended it over the normal 3d view...simply fading one into the other.

Do you follow what I'm getting at? In Sh3, it's like there was one 3d view that they had an algorithm for the effect that distorted the view and made it blurry, and could also reduce that effect to get back to a regular/unfiltered view, as a smooth transition. In Sh4, it's like...there are just two views (regular, and 'blurry') and they simply fade/dissolve from one to the other.

The net effect is that, with the Sh4 effect, you can CLEARLY still see the 'clean' view through the wavey filter, just faded out.

Rather annoying. If I had to guess, I'd say they did this two-views-merged thing because they had to do that effect any way for the stadimeter in this game.

Crosseye76 · 05-07-07, 12:18 AM

I like the effect actually.

XanderF · 05-07-07, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

I like the effect actually.

Compared to the Sh3 version? REALLY? Why?? Sh3 is far more realistic?

Unless, maybe, different video cards handle it a bit differently, which is something I was considering. I have an ATI card, so...

CaptainCox · 05-07-07, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

I like the effect actually.

Ditto

Kant Schwimm · 05-07-07, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

I like the effect actually.

Agree

I think its very realistic, great immersion (punn intended

) in stormy seas at Pdepth with the waves lapping over my lens trying to get a visual on that sweet target is so FRUSTRATING I now know just how the skippers of the day must have felt, thanks devs great job

Now if they could just model seaweed and floatsom to stick to the lens at that critical moment........:p

ReallyDedPoet · 05-07-07, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

I like the effect actually.

Like this as well

RDP

Antrodemus · 05-07-07, 09:31 AM

I like the effect, but there should be some kind of residual blobs left, even after it's cleared the majority of the water.

flintlock · 05-07-07, 10:31 AM

I thought the effect was pretty decent.

AVGWarhawk · 05-07-07, 10:41 AM

At first it was annoying. I found out I really like it also.

Silence · 05-07-07, 10:45 AM

IMO the water effect in SH4 is one of the best I have seen for any game on any platform. Think the wakes need a little tuning up so that they are a little more real, as there are some inconsistencies.

XanderF · 05-07-07, 10:47 AM

Okay, it's not the IDEA of the effect I'm complaining about, rather the EXECUTION.

Again, compare to the same effect in Sh3. Do you REALLY find it looks better in Sh4??

If so, there has GOT to be some kind of video card difference or something. Seeing the ghost of the ship, as clear and crisp as on the surface in the midday sun easily visible behind a wavey version of the same scene just destroys the immersion.

ReallyDedPoet · 05-07-07, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silence

IMO the water effect in SH4 is one of the best I have seen for any game on any platform. Think the wakes need a little tuning up so that they are a little more real, as there are some inconsistencies.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114167

Have a look at this thread regarding wakes

RDP

tycho102 · 05-07-07, 02:07 PM

I think the effect is fairly realistic.

Although I have never actually modeled thin-film refraction effects with sea water, and don't know anything about the curvature of the optics (or even their composition). Actual sea water has all kinds of plankton and other impurities that will change the refractive index, surface tension, viscosity...

Bilge_Rat · 05-07-07, 02:43 PM

I am not sure what you are referring to XanderF, on the whole I find all of the water effects in SH4 are greatly improved over SH3 and very lifelike. I especially like the whitecaps. Spend some time on the bridge in stormy weather, you will see foamy water, whitecaps, etc., very nice. I havent noticed anything special about the water on the periscope.

As Silence pointed out, the only remaining issue is the waves breaking over the bow which should break up into foam, but presently comes in as a solid sheet. I presume its a limitation of the engine, but considering all the other improvements, its a minor point.

Antrodemus · 05-07-07, 02:54 PM

C'mon, the details were in the first sentence of his post;

Quote:

Specifically, referring to the periscope.

I don't think Xander was refering to any of the other water FX.

05-06-07, 09:43 PM	#1
XanderF Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 554 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Anyone else annoyed by the water refraction effect? Specifically, referring to the periscope. In Sh3, the water distorted the image into ripples that looked like they ran off the 'scope, and the view solidified from the blurry view through the water. In Sh4, it's like they took the 3d view, applied some kind of "waving" filter to it, and then blended it over the normal 3d view...simply fading one into the other. Do you follow what I'm getting at? In Sh3, it's like there was one 3d view that they had an algorithm for the effect that distorted the view and made it blurry, and could also reduce that effect to get back to a regular/unfiltered view, as a smooth transition. In Sh4, it's like...there are just two views (regular, and 'blurry') and they simply fade/dissolve from one to the other. The net effect is that, with the Sh4 effect, you can CLEARLY still see the 'clean' view through the wavey filter, just faded out. Rather annoying. If I had to guess, I'd say they did this two-views-merged thing because they had to do that effect any way for the stadimeter in this game. __________________

05-07-07, 12:18 AM	#2
Crosseye76 Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 258 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I like the effect actually. __________________ There are only two kinds of ships. Submarines and Targets.

05-07-07, 10:41 AM	#9
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,286 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	At first it was annoying. I found out I really like it also. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

05-07-07, 10:45 AM	#10
Silence Watch Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nebraska, U.S. Posts: 17 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	IMO the water effect in SH4 is one of the best I have seen for any game on any platform. Think the wakes need a little tuning up so that they are a little more real, as there are some inconsistencies. __________________ "No matter where you travel, when you meet a guy who's been... There's an instant kind of friendship 'cause we're brothers of the 'phin." - Robert Reed, G.W. Carver (SSBN-656)

05-07-07, 10:47 AM	#11
XanderF Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 554 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Okay, it's not the IDEA of the effect I'm complaining about, rather the EXECUTION. Again, compare to the same effect in Sh3. Do you REALLY find it looks better in Sh4?? If so, there has GOT to be some kind of video card difference or something. Seeing the ghost of the ship, as clear and crisp as on the surface in the midday sun easily visible behind a wavey version of the same scene just destroys the immersion. __________________

05-07-07, 09:31 AM	#7
Antrodemus Torpedoman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 117 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I like the effect, but there should be some kind of residual blobs left, even after it's cleared the majority of the water.

05-07-07, 10:31 AM	#8
flintlock Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,177 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I thought the effect was pretty decent.

05-07-07, 02:07 PM	#13
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think the effect is fairly realistic. Although I have never actually modeled thin-film refraction effects with sea water, and don't know anything about the curvature of the optics (or even their composition). Actual sea water has all kinds of plankton and other impurities that will change the refractive index, surface tension, viscosity...

05-07-07, 02:43 PM	#14
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	I am not sure what you are referring to XanderF, on the whole I find all of the water effects in SH4 are greatly improved over SH3 and very lifelike. I especially like the whitecaps. Spend some time on the bridge in stormy weather, you will see foamy water, whitecaps, etc., very nice. I havent noticed anything special about the water on the periscope. As Silence pointed out, the only remaining issue is the waves breaking over the bow which should break up into foam, but presently comes in as a solid sheet. I presume its a limitation of the engine, but considering all the other improvements, its a minor point.