Almost 1 hr to sink a ship - Page 3

Kpt. Lehmann · 11-11-06, 04:48 AM

[quote=U-snafu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Seriously, 1 hour sinking time for a ship is totally reasonable.

I read an account of a ship torped off of nc coast during ww1-ship broke in two and stern section sank--but crew survived by staying on bow section which stayed afloat -believe it was for a day and a half- before the bow section finally washed up on the beach

In that regard--nuke proof could be considered reasonable

.

In unusual and isolated cases yes indeed. For most cases sinking times should be under two hours.

sergbuto · 11-11-06, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robj250

Anyway, back to the ship. It's a SMALL merchant. Fire 1, impact; Fire 2, impact, (now it's only a small merchant - how many torpedoes do I have to put into it) anyway, Fire 3; impact. Still the ship doesn't sink and get the credit. So I surface and approach with the intension of using the deck gun. At about 800 m I start the deck gun. I must have fired over 100 rounds.

In RL a small merchant would sink in minutes even after two torpedo hits, not to mention three.

HunterICX · 11-11-06, 05:54 AM

bob has so much to learn about TGW,

the damage model is a bit tricky though.

but dont worry about convoys.

first of all, dont wait for the confirmation that it is sunk.
just fire a torpedo or 2 at it or maybe 3 but I mainly shoot 2 torpedos at Medium or large merchants. so you damage at least 2 compartments an create floodings in them. now, focus urself on an other target after you have the 2 torpedo's hitting the other ship. at the other target you do exact the same 2 torpedo's.

now what I do is mostly lower my Periscope and dive a bit deeper. and I,m going to rearm my torpedo tubes.

and now 3 things can happen:
1. the ship will listen to one of its side, and sink of the damages you done.
2. the ship you shot will be crippled in the water, eather very slow moving and he will be left behind. or he will be dead in the water stationary.
3. the torpedo didnt do severe damages and he will continue the trip.

Now, I sink the cripled that are left behind with my deck gun. I just wait for the rest of the convoy to be far away. now when the 2 ships are sunk I rearm my torpedo tubes and go full speed and go on the chase, I intercept and do more damages.

sometimes when I didn know it. I had shot 3 different ships, the escorts where having a hang on me and forced me to dive deep. now without seeing or knowing it because I was busy repairing and evading the Escorts , the 3 ships I shot resulted to be 2 confirmed sinkings, and 1 left stationary in the water. now the 2 ships that where sunk could manage to travel some extra kilometers from where I shot them. the other one I finished of when the escorts where heading back to the convoy.

robj250 · 11-11-06, 10:27 AM

So you don't actually have to confirm the sinking anymore to get the credit if it sinks later, then.

fredbass · 11-11-06, 10:44 AM

I believe you still have to be in range when she goes down to get credit.

robj250 · 11-11-06, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass

I believe you still have to be in range when she goes down to get credit.

What is considered "to be in range". Submerged, taking a beating by the destroyers?

To be in range is how many metres?

fredbass · 11-11-06, 11:22 AM

Well I've got credit while being submerged below periscope depth, so I know you can get credit without visual, but basically if you can see it or hear it, you'll get credit. I'm pretty sure if the watch officer can see it, then you definitely will get the credit. I'm not sure if going real deep makes a difference, but I try to keep checking hydrophone. If it's dead in the water, I'm not sure if you need visual contact or not. Maybe somebody else around here knows more.

stabiz · 11-11-06, 11:22 AM

If you can still see it, you are in range. Besides, cripled ships are still there, if you go on a detour with the gents of the Royal Navy. I have come back to damaged ships later many times. Just mark it on the map, if you think the battle for survival will take a long time.

BTW, damage stuff with the smaller ships is pretty messed up in that damage model. Dont ever go after a fishing boat, for instance. (Not that most do, anyway) But sometimes ships will go boom like in stock. Its all about where you hit.

You will learn the hard way, rob. (And you will get killed in the progress, many times)

VonHelsching · 11-11-06, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robj250

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass

I believe you still have to be in range when she goes down to get credit.

What is considered "to be in range". Submerged, taking a beating by the destroyers?

To be in range is how many metres?

Robert, that would be about 30 kilometers radius, IIRC.

Hartmann · 11-11-06, 03:32 PM

Some small ships o trap "Q" ships were filled with empty oild drums that make nearly impossible to sink

AVGWarhawk · 11-11-06, 09:13 PM

[quote=Kpt. Lehmann]

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-snafu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Seriously, 1 hour sinking time for a ship is totally reasonable.

I read an account of a ship torped off of nc coast during ww1-ship broke in two and stern section sank--but crew survived by staying on bow section which stayed afloat -believe it was for a day and a half- before the bow section finally washed up on the beach

In that regard--nuke proof could be considered reasonable

.

In unusual and isolated cases yes indeed. For most cases sinking times should be under two hours.

Yes indeed...the small tramp is dead meat when GWX is on my hard drive!!! I have a bone to pick with it

Thanks for looking after that GWX team. Your on my Christmas list

As far as the ships sinking realistically, your team is dead on with it in my opinion and my opinion is not humble. The slow sinking aspect you have placed in the game was definitly missing in the vanilla version! Keep up the good work!!! I will surface when GWX is ready to go

Zero Niner · 11-12-06, 10:41 PM

To contribute...
IIRC the attack scope zoom factor was increased to 10x in GW from the stock 6x. That could explain the "wall" - I had it too.

I can confirm (based on one experience, heh) getting credit for a kill even if you didn't see it go down. I had sneaked into Portsmouth and found 2 CLs moored there - a Dido & a Fiji class.
After taking care of business I decided that discretion was the better part of valour, and sneaked back out. I had already sunk the Fiji, but although I had put a couple of eels into the Dido she still had not sunk, although she appeared to be settling into the water.

After some time later, after I had transited the Channel, I checked my logbook. Sure enough, the Dido was listed there, as was the Fiji.

Steeltrap · 11-13-06, 01:30 AM

In reality a 5-6000 tonne merchant ship would be lucky to last 10 minutes after 2 torpedos, and in many cases went down in less than 5. Even a single torp would sink most. An important factor was cargo. Iron ore etc. made them sink like bricks, while volatile cargoes made them floating bombs.

The idea of putting 2-3 torps inot a modest sized merchant and waiting 30 minutes is a nonsense, but might be a consequence of nerfing the equally ridiculous stock damage model, where a BB would be sunk by 1-2 torps in a matter of minutes.

U-boat commanders would often fire a single torp at a target of around 5,000t to see what would happen, occasionally finishing them off with the deck gun or another torp is that proved necessary (the choice dictated by weather and tactical situations).

You can find plenty of descriptions of the sinking of merchant ships by survivors on the web. A sample of them will show you what I have written is pretty representative. Trouble is how to do that in the game without making other, more hardy ships, equally easy to sink.

11-11-06, 05:54 AM	#33
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	bob has so much to learn about TGW, the damage model is a bit tricky though. but dont worry about convoys. first of all, dont wait for the confirmation that it is sunk. just fire a torpedo or 2 at it or maybe 3 but I mainly shoot 2 torpedos at Medium or large merchants. so you damage at least 2 compartments an create floodings in them. now, focus urself on an other target after you have the 2 torpedo's hitting the other ship. at the other target you do exact the same 2 torpedo's. now what I do is mostly lower my Periscope and dive a bit deeper. and I,m going to rearm my torpedo tubes. and now 3 things can happen: 1. the ship will listen to one of its side, and sink of the damages you done. 2. the ship you shot will be crippled in the water, eather very slow moving and he will be left behind. or he will be dead in the water stationary. 3. the torpedo didnt do severe damages and he will continue the trip. Now, I sink the cripled that are left behind with my deck gun. I just wait for the rest of the convoy to be far away. now when the 2 ships are sunk I rearm my torpedo tubes and go full speed and go on the chase, I intercept and do more damages. sometimes when I didn know it. I had shot 3 different ships, the escorts where having a hang on me and forced me to dive deep. now without seeing or knowing it because I was busy repairing and evading the Escorts , the 3 ships I shot resulted to be 2 confirmed sinkings, and 1 left stationary in the water. now the 2 ships that where sunk could manage to travel some extra kilometers from where I shot them. the other one I finished of when the escorts where heading back to the convoy. __________________

11-11-06, 10:44 AM	#35
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I believe you still have to be in range when she goes down to get credit. __________________

11-11-06, 11:22 AM	#37
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well I've got credit while being submerged below periscope depth, so I know you can get credit without visual, but basically if you can see it or hear it, you'll get credit. I'm pretty sure if the watch officer can see it, then you definitely will get the credit. I'm not sure if going real deep makes a difference, but I try to keep checking hydrophone. If it's dead in the water, I'm not sure if you need visual contact or not. Maybe somebody else around here knows more. __________________

11-11-06, 11:22 AM	#38
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	If you can still see it, you are in range. Besides, cripled ships are still there, if you go on a detour with the gents of the Royal Navy. I have come back to damaged ships later many times. Just mark it on the map, if you think the battle for survival will take a long time. BTW, damage stuff with the smaller ships is pretty messed up in that damage model. Dont ever go after a fishing boat, for instance. (Not that most do, anyway) But sometimes ships will go boom like in stock. Its all about where you hit. You will learn the hard way, rob. (And you will get killed in the progress, many times) __________________

11-11-06, 03:32 PM	#40
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Some small ships o trap "Q" ships were filled with empty oild drums that make nearly impossible to sink __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

11-11-06, 10:27 AM	#34
robj250 Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port Hardy, BC, Canada 75 yo with M.S. & C.O.P.D. & heart problems Posts: 1,930 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	So you don't actually have to confirm the sinking anymore to get the credit if it sinks later, then.

11-12-06, 10:41 PM	#42
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	To contribute... IIRC the attack scope zoom factor was increased to 10x in GW from the stock 6x. That could explain the "wall" - I had it too. I can confirm (based on one experience, heh) getting credit for a kill even if you didn't see it go down. I had sneaked into Portsmouth and found 2 CLs moored there - a Dido & a Fiji class. After taking care of business I decided that discretion was the better part of valour, and sneaked back out. I had already sunk the Fiji, but although I had put a couple of eels into the Dido she still had not sunk, although she appeared to be settling into the water. After some time later, after I had transited the Channel, I checked my logbook. Sure enough, the Dido was listed there, as was the Fiji.

11-13-06, 01:30 AM	#43
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	In reality a 5-6000 tonne merchant ship would be lucky to last 10 minutes after 2 torpedos, and in many cases went down in less than 5. Even a single torp would sink most. An important factor was cargo. Iron ore etc. made them sink like bricks, while volatile cargoes made them floating bombs. The idea of putting 2-3 torps inot a modest sized merchant and waiting 30 minutes is a nonsense, but might be a consequence of nerfing the equally ridiculous stock damage model, where a BB would be sunk by 1-2 torps in a matter of minutes. U-boat commanders would often fire a single torp at a target of around 5,000t to see what would happen, occasionally finishing them off with the deck gun or another torp is that proved necessary (the choice dictated by weather and tactical situations). You can find plenty of descriptions of the sinking of merchant ships by survivors on the web. A sample of them will show you what I have written is pretty representative. Trouble is how to do that in the game without making other, more hardy ships, equally easy to sink.