Muslim uproar - (Merged)

[Skybird]

No matter what the religious argument was (and it dominated in the first time, and certainly for the only successful crusade there ever was: the first one), and if the religious argument later was hijacked by ambitions for material gains, or not, one thing must be clear: that the disputed territories once were Jewish and Christian dominated, as a conseqeunce of the Roman empire, and that they got attacked and conquered by Islamic armies, which makes the crusades not a war of aggression, but a war of defence, trying to win back what had been lost in ground to an invading aggressor. The cruelty of some crusader'S acting, the killing of prisoners, for example, was not always a result of barbarism, but of military thinking: the europeans had no reserves, no ressources left, low man numbers and very, very thin supply lines, they often simply could not afford to supply prisoners in huge quantities (a story from Richard's part in the fight). However, before Richard after one battle had killed all Muslim survivors for this military reason, Islamic leaders had massacred even more Christian survivors of a battle, too, but on what they claimed to be their own ground and in a much better supply situation and with a numerically superior force in place, the excuse of not being able to feed them or having not enough men to guard them is not available for them. Where Richard acted out of military needs, they killed the survivors of that Christian army, to send Europe a clear message: "This is the best fighters and knights you have? Look what we do with them! Hahahaha!" It was an act of terror, so to speak, to pour horror into the heart of the europeans so that they may shy away from trying to win back for Christianity what originally was land of their religion. - An example just to illustrate that Muslim acting was not less brutal and violant then sometimes that of the crusaders - but not for reasons of need, but other, less manadatory needs.

The reconquista was a (successful) attempt to win back territories that had been lost to Muslim invasion, and to kick the aggressors out of Spain as well as Sicily, Italy, Greece. Which was acchieved in Spain, after the Islamic attackers had commited terrible atrocities over centuries and caused a tremendous share of pain and tragedy for the original people of that Spanish territories, suffered mass killings, slave harvestings, discrimination, plunderings, destroying major cities, etc. Some Spanish cities suffered progroms and complete destruction not only once, but several times from Muslim hands. The faery-tale of wonderful tolerant coexistence in Cordoba - is a myth. Never forget that Muslim tolerance means humiliating, discriminating supression of those people that suffer the questionable honour of being tolerated in this state of socalled dhimmitude. Repeatedly , Muslims in Spain also fought amongst themsleves, and then called then Christian kingdoms in the North for help - which usually was granted, out of fear that denying that help suddenly would lead to a unification of the rivalling muslims who then would turn against the Christian kingdoms in an act of this typical Muslim fury over the offense of having been rejected when they demanded something.

And one major difference between Christianity, basing on and following the explicit teachings of Jesus (without whom their wouldn'T be anything called Christianity). Christians who act with violance and intolerance, and who start wars of aggression to conquer new land, are violating the explicit teachings of Christ. Muslims who start wars of conquest and act violantly against other cultures and faiths, are following the explicit teaching of Muhammad and the Quran. The age of imperialism in Europe was a violation of Christian religion. The ongoing history of imperial conquest in Islam is because of it's religion. And this should teach everybody an important knowledge.

If anyone thinks it needs armies nowadays to spread Islam , he better thinks twice. After being militarily defated on european soil repeatedly, now manipulation of mass media and public opinion has proven to do a much better job for Islam in modern times, and tailoring politically correct thinking to it's needs. It gives them access to the West supoerior technology and weaponry. Then there is oil, then there is the weakness and downfall of western cultureand it's values and the lack of unity amongst europeans, and finally there is the unforgiving impact of demographic pressure, and the "fast breeding program" of Muslim colonists who already have moved to the West. where original europeans nowadays have 0-1 children, Muslims tend to have 3-7 children, and more. Stealth Fighters and GPS-guided bombs will not help us against these new enemy tactics. And if we do not find a stronger answer, we will become slaves of Islam inside of what once has been our own house. It will also mean that Islamic world control, if it manages to acchieve that in congruence with it'S ideological teachings, demands and proclaimed and written down demands and intentions, will in fact put an end to human history and evolution for terrifying long times to come. The standstill of any mental evolution - for me this is a vision of bleak horror.

[STEED]

Pin a medal of them fish, Oops you can't do that.

Fish enlisted in US terror fight

One of the most common types of fish in America has been enlisted in the fight against terrorism.

San Francisco, Washington and New York are using bluegills - also known as sunfish - to safeguard their public drinking water.
A small number of fish are kept in tanks which are constantly filled with water from the municipal supply.
The computerised system registers changes in the fishes' vital signs and sends an alert when something is wrong.
Since 11 September 2001, the US government has taken the threat of attacks on water supplies seriously.
Early warning system
Under federal law, nearly all community water systems must be assessed for their vulnerability to terrorism - and water supplies are constantly monitored and tested for chemical and biological agents.
"It's like an early warning system - it acts as another line of defence," said Bill Lawler, co-founder of Intelligent Automation Corporation, the San Diego-based company that makes the anti-terror apparatus.
Bluegills - a hardy species - are highly sensitive to a wide number of toxins. When they are exposed to such substances they experience the fish version of coughing, flexing their gills to expel unwanted particles.
At the first sign of stress in the fish, the computer system will send an alert by email, pager or mobile device, also known as "fish phones".
New York City's bluegills were put to work recently when the system caught traces of a diesel spill before any of the Department of Environmental Protection's other devices.
The bluegills do have limitations however. They cannot reliably detect germs and are no use against other sorts of attacks - the bombing of a water main, or computer hackers attacking the systems that control the flow of water.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...as/5360612.stm

Published: 2006/09/19 15:56:55 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[Immacolata]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And one major difference between Christianity, basing on and following the explicit teachings of Jesus (without whom their wouldn'T be anything called Christianity). Christians who act with violance and intolerance, and who start wars of aggression to conquer new land, are violating the explicit teachings of Christ. Muslims who start wars of conquest and act violantly against other cultures and faiths, are following the explicit teaching of Muhammad and the Quran. The age of imperialism in Europe was a violation of Christian religion. The ongoing history of imperial conquest in Islam is because of it's religion. And this should teach anybody..

Yes it does teach indeed. Firstly it strengthens my hypothesis that war is waged and won on monetary gains, not religion. AS you see, religion is conveniently put in front when it serves your purpose for conquest, and just as conveniently put aside when it stands in your way. Blood and iron, my friend, is how the world is crafted, not by religious flim flam.

[Skybird]

Oh, THAT Fish you mean!

[STEED]

Dose our Home Secretary Dr John Reid really believe asking British Muslims to inform on their own family members to spot potential extremists? Fat chance they are a closed community and will never do a thing apart from protest and a spot of rioting when some one up sets them.

Reid call over Muslim extremism
Home Secretary John Reid is to call on British Muslims to do more to help root out potential extremists.

In a speech Mr Reid will ask Muslim parents to keep a close eye on their children and act if they suspect they are being radicalised by extremists.
The comments will reflect government frustration that not enough has been done since the 7 July London bombings.
However, some Muslim leaders have concerns and, last month, urged a change in UK foreign policy.
Key role
It will be Mr Reid's first speech to a Muslim audience since he became home secretary in May.
During his trip to east London, when he will also visit a mosque, he will say that community and religious leaders can play a key role in the fight against terrorism.
Mr Reid will not tell Muslim parents to report their concerns to the police but wants them to confront their children's behaviour and talk to them.
He will remind his audience that many of those killed in al-Qaeda attacks have been Muslims.
The home secretary will add that the fight against terrorism is a fight to defend common values.
'Dreadful misjudgement'
In an open letter last month, some Muslims leaders said British foreign policy was putting civilians at increased risk in the UK and abroad.
Mr Reid described the letter, signed by three Muslim MPs, three peers and 38 organisations, as a "dreadful misjudgement".

HAVE YOUR SAY
Introduce licencing for all preachers of all religions
David Holman, Europe

Earlier this year, Tony Blair said the government alone could not root out extremism in Muslim communities and defeat the terrorism it creates. After the 7 July attacks last year, ministers organised national roadshows targeting fanaticism.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ws/5362052.stm

Published: 2006/09/20 08:43:04 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[Skybird]

Islam does not make a differenc between religion and policy - "my friend". And the early crusades were triggered by motives of this religious flim flam, not ambitions of conquesting new territory. and even during later crusades, there always were those who participated in them for exclsuively religious motives, thinking of the freeing of the Holy Land from Muslim occupation a religious duty. One can ask if this would have been supported by Jesus. but surely these people followed the rleigious authority that they believed in: the church. don'T see it with modern eyes. You need to see it through their eyes.

What you labelled as "flim flam" just illustrates that you seriously underestimate the power factoir of motivation. In this, Muslim armies always have been superior to christian armies. Reasonable mind and logical acting is no match for the fury caused by religious believing. Bynzantium died, despite superior weapons. Spain fell, and Karl the Hammer only won the battle - not because he was stronger, but the Muslim factions acted like bloody dilletants. Vienna was saved - by sheer luck. The Mujaheddins outsat the Russian'S frightening firepower. NATO will not see much better fate. The Americans have suerior firepower - and still have lost control over the country of Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Reason, and weapons technology, is no match for - expecially religious - motivation. Just look how much a single shot with a tank cannon costs (1200 dollar, roughly), for that money a motavted suicide attacker will doe much, much more damage to you.

Economically and financiall, we have already lost the war on terror. They use cents to make us waste billions.

If I hold no fear of death, and even long for it, no weapon you can buy can stop me from attacking you. That unimportant my motivation is. and if you have a problem with massmurder, or oyur public has, the only questionthat remains is can I come up with more buddies sharing my mindset than you have bullets to fire before your people call you back, stopping you from commiting these atrocities against my group.

[STEED]

Well, well no surprise at all.

Reid speech disrupted by hecklers
Home Secretary John Reid has called on British Muslims to do more to help root out potential extremists.

In a speech Mr Reid asked Muslim parents to keep a close eye on their children and act if they suspect they are being radicalised by extremists.
The comments reflect government frustration that not enough has been done since the 7 July London bombings.
His speech was interrupted by a Muslim heckler who said he was "furious" about "state terrorism by British police".
Mr Reid watched as the protester was led from the building by police and stewards.
The protester accused the minister of being an "enemy" of Islam.
A second heckler was ejected a few minutes later after he also interrupted the speech.
Key role
The man emerged from the venue clutching several posters, one of which said: "John Reid you will pay!"
It comes after some Muslim leaders expressed concerns about the UK's foreign policy and called for it to be changed.
It was Mr Reid's first speech to a Muslim audience since he became home secretary in May.
During his trip to east London, which also involved a visit to a mosque, he said that community and religious leaders can play a key role in the fight against terrorism.
The home secretary said "our fight is not with Muslims generally". Instead, he said, there was a "struggle against extremism".
"Our battle is with those terrorists who have no respect for human life, equality or the democratic process," he said.
He spoke of there being a "conflict of values" between "terrorists on one side" and most of "modern civilisation" on the other.

HAVE YOUR SAY
Introduce licensing for all preachers of all religions
David Holman, Europe


Mr Reid did not tell Muslim parents to report their concerns to the police but wants them to confront their children's behaviour and talk to them.
And he reminded his audience that many of those killed in al-Qaeda attacks have been Muslims.
The home secretary added that the fight against terrorism is a fight to defend common values.
In an open letter last month, some Muslims leaders said British foreign policy was putting civilians at increased risk in the UK and abroad.
Mr Reid described the letter, signed by three Muslim MPs, three peers and 38 organisations, as a "dreadful misjudgement".
Earlier this year, Prime Minister Tony Blair said the government alone could not root out extremism in Muslim communities and defeat the terrorism it creates. After the 7 July attacks last year, ministers organised national roadshows targeting fanaticism.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ws/5362052.stm

Published: 2006/09/20 11:40:02 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by STEED

Dose our Home Secretary Dr John Reid really believe asking British Muslims to inform on their own family members to spot potential extremists?

Been there, done that.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Been there, done that.

AL, drop him a line and tell him it will not work.

[SkvyWvr]

How do well educated officials come up with such dumbass ideas?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by STEED

AL, drop him a line and tell him it will not work.

Are you crazy?! After yesterday's BBC report about attacking phone booths, nothing doing!

[The Avon Lady]

I will now wait for the first major US false alarm, when someone decides to place fish in parks and in buildings to check the air for terror-based contaminations and panics when they all start dying within minutes of their placement.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Are you crazy?! After yesterday's BBC report about attacking phone booths, nothing doing!

Try email or a letter or what ever.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by SkvyWvr

How do well educated officials come up with such dumbass ideas?

By being well educated dumbasses. Quite common, actually.

[joea]

Reality TV:

http://newsbiscuit.com/article/new-r...rs-in-paradise

A new reality TV show plans to trick Muslim extremists into thinking they are taking part in a suicide bombing, and then secretly filming them as they explore what they imagine is the afterlife.
Following the success of last year’s reality TV show Space Cadets, in which contestants were duped into believing that they had been sent into orbit, Channel Four has been under pressure to raise the stakes in the competitive world of reality TV.
‘If death is the ultimate reality, then making the participants think they are dead is the ultimate reality TV show’ said producer Jeremy Gill. ‘These young extremists will really think they have died for the jihad and gone to their Islamic paradise.’
The show’s set up is quite simple. Extremist militant young Muslims will be tricked into thinking that they are about to lay down their lives in the Holy Jihad. But instead, the suicide bombs in their suitcases will only be stun grenades. When they wake up they will have no idea that they are actually in a specially prepared aircraft hangar outside Luton.
‘They believe that seventy two virgins will be waiting for them in paradise. In our version, there is only Christine Hamilton and Carol Thatcher’ explained the producer of Jihad Martyrs. ‘We thought it would be more entertaining if paradise was consistently disappointing and very badly run. Nothing works and the food is awful. Oh and God and St Peter will there too, because we these guys have to adjust to waking up in a Judeo-Christian heaven. And we made God Jewish. Channel Four does have a remit to cater for all faiths, and we wouldn’t want to cause any offence.’
The programme is already in production and the first episode will transmit next month. Police will not be informed of the identity of the suicide bombers until the end of the series, nor the secret location in which the programme is being filmed; ‘We thought it might compromise the illusion that these people were in Heaven’ said Jeremy Gill. ‘…if armed policeman suddenly burst in and pumped thirty bullets into their heads.’

This just might be the answer.

*Sits and awaits a 2000 word post by Skybird, and numerous links from Jihadwatch by Avon Lady as well as sundry miltary solutions from US posters*