LuftWolf and Amizaur's Realism Mod Poll #11: Adv. Torpedoes - Page 19

Bellman · 05-27-06, 01:22 AM

Well I think I've sorted my scrambled DW installation to enable a dive or two with the new Playtest.

I gotta say the Mk2 UUV is crucial so at the outset I'm looking at its performance in tracking incoming torps
and its range ability to contribute to passive cross bearing fixes.

Second only to that is the persistence of torps to burn-through spoofing CMs and their ability
to regain the track/s post spoofing.

Dickensian * translation for our NY wizard -
1. What ranges will UUV track incoming /surface/subs ?
2. Will torps be easily spoofed ?
* Just a little sarcasm LW !

...and please dont 'lose your marbles'.......................................... ...................just yet !

LuftWolf · 05-27-06, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Dickensian * translation for our NY wizard -
1. What ranges will UUV track incoming /surface/subs ?
2. Will torps be easily spoofed ?
* Just a little sarcasm LW !

Beats me... but these sorts of things can be tweaked easily once the engineering is done. Kind of like tuning a guitar.

Just to give you guys a status report, I have finished dividing the AI from the player torpedoes, which was no small task.

Now I have the bulk of the playable torpedo doctrines to make as well as finishing up the database changes for the AI, as well as the advanced sensor modelling.

I think I can say, confidently that we are about 65% there, with the majority of the large critical blocks being done.

Realistically, I think the torpedo mods can be done in a few days and submitted for testing, and I think LWAMI 4.00 can probably be done in about two weeks or so, and that's with a lot more changes in it than just the torpedo mods, as well as factoring in a testing period.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Cheers,
David

Bellman · 05-27-06, 03:53 AM

The gremlins are determined that I dont get to dive the latest 'Playable'

My Stock and previous LwAmi separate installs work fine but when I exchange the Database or Doctrine files for the Playtest ones this is what hapopens:

Going into the scenario which works fine as above in Playtest I enter weapons Loadout and make my selection. Click acceptance and dive but Hey Presto my loadout is not what was selected BUT what was there in the first place (ie prior to the attempted change.) Dived many times=same result :hmm:

LuftWolf · 05-27-06, 04:33 AM

Delete all of the files in your DW folder marked .lod as their file extension.

Bellman · 05-27-06, 05:31 AM

Wizardry works !

That fixed it LW !

Cheers David.

Bellman · 05-28-06, 05:48 AM

I like very much what I've seen in dives so far.

Just a couple of things -
Firstly surprised that the Mk2 UUV does not report active cm contacts !
Secondly the happening originaly reported to Amizaur following his first release, still occurs, namely after a torp (Mk 48) has self-activated at RTE range I am unable, within normal wire guidance range, to regain control. But everything works fine if the torp is activated prior to RTE
ie. Speed/depth and directional control.

Standing by - with pillow on head. ;-)

Molon Labe · 05-28-06, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellman

I like very much what I've seen in dives so far.

Just a couple of things -
Firstly surprised that the Mk2 UUV does not report active cm contacts !
Secondly the happening originaly reported to Amizaur following his first release, still occurs, namely after a torp (Mk 48) has self-activated at RTE range I am unable, within normal wire guidance range, to regain control. But everything works fine if the torp is activated prior to RTE
ie. Speed/depth and directional control.

Standing by - with pillow on head. ;-)

Active CMs have a very small NL, I wouldn't expect the tuned-down UUV to pick them up.

Bellman · 05-28-06, 09:49 AM

But even when you are very, very close ....................nothing !! ?

Now where did I hear the term 'surrender monkeys' ?
The UUV Mk2 has been emasculated as an ASW offensive tool completely!
This is a big retrograde step in my eyes !!
What was/is called for are marginal changes in performance that do not fundamentaly
change the balance of the GAME ! Repeat GAME not RL -
RL has moved on way,way ahead, we know that !

Molon Labe · 05-28-06, 10:03 AM

Well, completely emasculated is obviously going a bit far, since I used a UUV against LW successfully just a few days ago. But even it it were, all of the "expert testimony" here on the boards seems to be in agreement that UUVs are generally not effective at detecting submarines, so the reduced performance is bringing the game more in line with reality. And that is definitely a good thing.

In terms of game balance between subs, it effects both sides, so any change in balance is negligible. In terms of balance between platform types, it can still detect noisy skimmers and torpedoes, so it is still good for ASUW and for quickly localizing air-dropped torpedoes; any change in balance is also negligible.

In terms of playability, tracking subs just got a lot harder, which is also a good thing, since triangulation is just too damn easy. I welcome the return of the importance of good TMA.

TLAM Strike · 05-28-06, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellman

Now where did I hear the term 'surrender monkeys' ?

Grounds Keeper Willie from The Simpsons probably.

Quote:

The UUV Mk2 has been emasculated as an ASW offensive tool completely!
This is a big retrograde step in my eyes !!
What was/is called for are marginal changes in performance that do not fundamentaly
change the balance of the GAME ! Repeat GAME not RL -
RL has moved on way,way ahead, we know that !

'LuftWolf and Amizaur’s Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod'

LW and Ami have changed the balance of a lot of things making them closer to reality. Remember the "53cm" and "65cm" torpedoes? The Sonobuoy depths?

Either lean to use sensors the platforms have in real life or play stock, that’s what it comes down to.

Bellman · 05-28-06, 11:55 AM

TL:

Quote:

Either lean to use sensors

Yeh - how does that go - lean left for SA , right for TA - I must try that !

OK I guess I personaly have no problem with using the sub sensors for the tasks we discuss.

But I do know the non-hardcore ''gamers'' find the UUV a useful prop, rightly or wrongly !

I merely make the point that this change travels too far - I can live with it - hope others can.

Wildcat · 05-28-06, 03:23 PM

Maybe the wrong thread for this but torpedoes are still exploding on countermeasures.

If an AI sub launches active countermeasures, torpedoes from the ASW rocket and Stallion from Akula will both explode on the countermeasure, completely ignoring the submarine beyond it.

Molon Labe · 05-28-06, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Maybe the wrong thread for this but torpedoes are still exploding on countermeasures.

If an AI sub launches active countermeasures, torpedoes from the ASW rocket and Stallion from Akula will both explode on the countermeasure, completely ignoring the submarine beyond it.

sounds like you botched your installation. removing CM detonations was probably the first thing LW/Ami did!

Wildcat · 05-28-06, 04:50 PM

I didn't botch the installation, the only way that's possible is if the installer for lwami is broken. I'm betting that those two torpedos were just forgotten when it came to the countermeasure thing. All the other torpedoes do not explode on countermeasures.

LuftWolf · 05-29-06, 03:47 AM

Wildcat, no this shouldn't be happening... in the ATP mod I distributed the MPU and the Stallion torpedo have not had any changes made to them at all since 3.02, and the torpedoes (in that version) all still shared the same doctrine that controls torpedo homing.

Has this happened a single time or is it repeatable?

My guess is that in that particular situation, the AI happened to drop two decoys at the exact same time (you can observe this in the replay if the torpedo explodes but the decoy still remains... what happened is one decoy got killed and the other still shows up... this is a "known" issue mentioned in the readme) or you just had some kind of random thing, the doctrine system in DW can sometimes be more spongy that I really like in terms of variables and conditionals (the software literally will do two things with the same code with no real reason that I can figure out sometimes, although fortunately this can be worked around usually).

Thanks guys.

Cheers,
David

PS There is no installer, its just a zip file with two folders and files.

View Poll Results: How extreme do you want the torpedo mods to be? (please see the message body for explanation of term
As is: general bug fixing and AI enhancement.	6	12.77%
Above with: Advanced Wire Control and Sensor Modelling	5	10.64%
Above with: Wire Lengths Limited to 10-13nm from launchpoint (reported as realistic)	7	14.89%
Above with: Advanced Torpedo Physics	29	61.70%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

05-27-06, 01:22 AM	#271
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Well I think I've sorted my scrambled DW installation to enable a dive or two with the new Playtest. I gotta say the Mk2 UUV is crucial so at the outset I'm looking at its performance in tracking incoming torps and its range ability to contribute to passive cross bearing fixes. Second only to that is the persistence of torps to burn-through spoofing CMs and their ability to regain the track/s post spoofing. Dickensian * translation for our NY wizard - 1. What ranges will UUV track incoming /surface/subs ? 2. Will torps be easily spoofed ? * Just a little sarcasm LW ! ...and please dont 'lose your marbles'.......................................... ...................just yet ! __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

05-27-06, 03:53 AM	#273
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	The gremlins are determined that I dont get to dive the latest 'Playable' My Stock and previous LwAmi separate installs work fine but when I exchange the Database or Doctrine files for the Playtest ones this is what hapopens: Going into the scenario which works fine as above in Playtest I enter weapons Loadout and make my selection. Click acceptance and dive but Hey Presto my loadout is not what was selected BUT what was there in the first place (ie prior to the attempted change.) Dived many times=same result :hmm: __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 05-28-06 at 05:17 AM.

05-27-06, 04:33 AM	#274
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Delete all of the files in your DW folder marked .lod as their file extension. __________________ LW

05-27-06, 05:31 AM	#275
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Wizardry works ! That fixed it LW ! Cheers David. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 05-28-06 at 05:17 AM.

05-28-06, 05:48 AM	#276
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	I like very much what I've seen in dives so far. Just a couple of things - Firstly surprised that the Mk2 UUV does not report active cm contacts ! Secondly the happening originaly reported to Amizaur following his first release, still occurs, namely after a torp (Mk 48) has self-activated at RTE range I am unable, within normal wire guidance range, to regain control. But everything works fine if the torp is activated prior to RTE ie. Speed/depth and directional control. Standing by - with pillow on head. ;-) __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

05-28-06, 09:49 AM	#278
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	But even when you are very, very close ....................nothing !! ? Now where did I hear the term 'surrender monkeys' ? The UUV Mk2 has been emasculated as an ASW offensive tool completely! This is a big retrograde step in my eyes !! What was/is called for are marginal changes in performance that do not fundamentaly change the balance of the GAME ! Repeat GAME not RL - RL has moved on way,way ahead, we know that ! __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 05-28-06 at 10:03 AM.

05-28-06, 10:03 AM	#279
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Well, completely emasculated is obviously going a bit far, since I used a UUV against LW successfully just a few days ago. But even it it were, all of the "expert testimony" here on the boards seems to be in agreement that UUVs are generally not effective at detecting submarines, so the reduced performance is bringing the game more in line with reality. And that is definitely a good thing. In terms of game balance between subs, it effects both sides, so any change in balance is negligible. In terms of balance between platform types, it can still detect noisy skimmers and torpedoes, so it is still good for ASUW and for quickly localizing air-dropped torpedoes; any change in balance is also negligible. In terms of playability, tracking subs just got a lot harder, which is also a good thing, since triangulation is just too damn easy. I welcome the return of the importance of good TMA. __________________

05-28-06, 03:23 PM	#282
Wildcat Engineer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 215 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Maybe the wrong thread for this but torpedoes are still exploding on countermeasures. If an AI sub launches active countermeasures, torpedoes from the ASW rocket and Stallion from Akula will both explode on the countermeasure, completely ignoring the submarine beyond it.

05-28-06, 04:50 PM	#284
Wildcat Engineer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 215 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	I didn't botch the installation, the only way that's possible is if the installer for lwami is broken. I'm betting that those two torpedos were just forgotten when it came to the countermeasure thing. All the other torpedoes do not explode on countermeasures.

05-29-06, 03:47 AM	#285
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Wildcat, no this shouldn't be happening... in the ATP mod I distributed the MPU and the Stallion torpedo have not had any changes made to them at all since 3.02, and the torpedoes (in that version) all still shared the same doctrine that controls torpedo homing. Has this happened a single time or is it repeatable? My guess is that in that particular situation, the AI happened to drop two decoys at the exact same time (you can observe this in the replay if the torpedo explodes but the decoy still remains... what happened is one decoy got killed and the other still shows up... this is a "known" issue mentioned in the readme) or you just had some kind of random thing, the doctrine system in DW can sometimes be more spongy that I really like in terms of variables and conditionals (the software literally will do two things with the same code with no real reason that I can figure out sometimes, although fortunately this can be worked around usually). Thanks guys. Cheers, David PS There is no installer, its just a zip file with two folders and files. __________________ LW