Weird behavior with radar vs sonar

Halcyon · 09-01-17, 11:02 PM

I used ESM to get a rough location on an unknown contact, E3.
Sonar couldn't hear it, so I decided to put the radar up. I immediately got a return, which upgraded the contact to Master 3.

Miraculously, radar also made my sonar start working, because I got narrowband lines on him.

As soon as I lowered the radar mast, I lost sonar contact?

I could be wrong here, but if I can hear him with the radar mast up, why can't I hear him with it down?

Is this a bug with the radar mast operation? Is it giving me a sonar contact when it shouldn't be?

-Pv- · 09-02-17, 02:30 PM

This does indeed seem suspicious unless the timing of sonar contact gain/loss was circumstantial. I assume this can be repeated two or more times.
-Pv-

Delgard · 09-02-17, 02:37 PM

I am not sure of all of the variables, to include a sailor having to step away to blow his nose...

Systems have a specialty, but it takes multiple systems to get the best picture.

As we choose a ship, maybe a set of variables are run to determine capability levels above, say, 80%. Just a base number, but the idea of variables should be expected everywhere.

Hope helps.

Capt Jack Harkness · 09-03-17, 02:21 AM

For sonar contacts to be detected they have to be at 10 dB or above, although they can be tracked below that level once detected. I think what happened is you never got the contact above 10 dB so sonar couldn't track it regardless of the other sensors picking it up.

Looks like an oversight rather than an outright bug.

pccl · 09-03-17, 05:09 AM

I mean... It's counterintuitive and I wish it's changed, but I can buy that.

What is happening would be something close to the following:

"There's a sound there, too faint to tell but it's probably not a ship... Maybe don't tell captain for now..."

**radar detects ship down that bearing**

"OH **** IT'S A SHIP OK YUP UH HUH TRACKING THAT CONTACT YES SIR HERE ARE THE NARROW BAND READINGS AND STUFF WE WERE GETTING SIR WE WERE DEFINITELY NOT SLEEPING ON THE JOB SIR"

GeneralGamer · 09-03-17, 05:14 AM

I'm not an expert at this game. But it seems as though at 1.8 thousand yards you should be discovered and all hell breaking loose. Sometimes with an update the Mods loose their bearings

It it seems like something is corrupt. Do you have an override folder? If you do delete it. Then reinstall one mod at a time. I would put in the Playable Subs Mod first. Then try the game again.

The second good Mod (I know works) is the enhanced navigation Map.

The Bandit · 09-03-17, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGamer

I'm not an expert at this game. But it seems as though at 1.8 thousand yards you should be discovered and all hell breaking loose. Sometimes with an update the Mods loose their bearings

It it seems like something is corrupt. Do you have an override folder? If you do delete it. Then reinstall one mod at a time. I would put in the Playable Subs Mod first. Then try the game again.

The second good Mod (I know works) is the enhanced navigation Map.

Don't forget we don't know what the background noise is. At 110 db or so its quite possible for them not to have him on sonar.

-Pv- · 09-03-17, 12:23 PM

"Don't forget we don't know what the background noise is. At 110 db or so its quite possible for them not to have him on sonar."

Good point. High noise level might explain everything.
-Pv-

Halcyon · 09-03-17, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delgard

I am not sure of all of the variables, to include a sailor having to step away to blow his nose...

Systems have a specialty, but it takes multiple systems to get the best picture.

As we choose a ship, maybe a set of variables are run to determine capability levels above, say, 80%. Just a base number, but the idea of variables should be expected everywhere.

Hope helps.

This doesn't address the problem I pointed out. Multiple systems are used to track, but once a system has the contact, it should have it.
Lowering radar shouldn't make the sonar go away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

For sonar contacts to be detected they have to be at 10 dB or above, although they can be tracked below that level once detected. I think what happened is you never got the contact above 10 dB so sonar couldn't track it regardless of the other sensors picking it up.

Looks like an oversight rather than an outright bug.

But sonar was tracking it, as you can see in the first screenshot. I have narrowband lines.
Those go away as soon as the radar goes down. Doesn't make sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGamer

I'm not an expert at this game. But it seems as though at 1.8 thousand yards you should be discovered and all hell breaking loose. Sometimes with an update the Mods loose their bearings

It it seems like something is corrupt. Do you have an override folder? If you do delete it. Then reinstall one mod at a time. I would put in the Playable Subs Mod first. Then try the game again.

The second good Mod (I know works) is the enhanced navigation Map.

I wasn't at 1.8k yards. Check the map scale. They're about 16k yards away.
Nothing is corrupt on my system.

-Pv- · 09-03-17, 03:23 PM

"But sonar was tracking it, as you can see in the first screenshot. I have narrowband lines.
Those go away as soon as the radar goes down. Doesn't make sense."

Agreed.

"I wasn't at 1.8k yards. Check the map scale. They're about 16k yards away."

This again makes me wonder if the noise level combined with your radar activity caused you to be detected, the contact then slowed or changed heading reducing your ability to keep the passive sonar track under the conditions and 9 miles away.

Added:
The key would be to make this happen again and raise/lower your radar more than once to see if the sonar contact comes back with it raised.
-Pv-

09-01-17, 11:02 PM	#1
Halcyon Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 106 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 3	Weird behavior with radar vs sonar I used ESM to get a rough location on an unknown contact, E3. Sonar couldn't hear it, so I decided to put the radar up. I immediately got a return, which upgraded the contact to Master 3. Miraculously, radar also made my sonar start working, because I got narrowband lines on him. As soon as I lowered the radar mast, I lost sonar contact? I could be wrong here, but if I can hear him with the radar mast up, why can't I hear him with it down? Is this a bug with the radar mast operation? Is it giving me a sonar contact when it shouldn't be?

09-03-17, 05:14 AM	#6
GeneralGamer Navy Dude Join Date: May 2017 Location: South Florida Posts: 173 Downloads: 159 Uploads: 3	I'm not an expert at this game. But it seems as though at 1.8 thousand yards you should be discovered and all hell breaking loose. Sometimes with an update the Mods loose their bearings It it seems like something is corrupt. Do you have an override folder? If you do delete it. Then reinstall one mod at a time. I would put in the Playable Subs Mod first. Then try the game again. The second good Mod (I know works) is the enhanced navigation Map. __________________ AKA Captain "Salty" at your service Visit, like and suscribe. is the best!!! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwe...1_CdFU_Mw4-SrQ

09-02-17, 02:30 PM	#2
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	This does indeed seem suspicious unless the timing of sonar contact gain/loss was circumstantial. I assume this can be repeated two or more times. -Pv-

09-02-17, 02:37 PM	#3
Delgard Captain Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: AZ & DC Posts: 487 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	I am not sure of all of the variables, to include a sailor having to step away to blow his nose... Systems have a specialty, but it takes multiple systems to get the best picture. As we choose a ship, maybe a set of variables are run to determine capability levels above, say, 80%. Just a base number, but the idea of variables should be expected everywhere. Hope helps.

09-03-17, 02:21 AM	#4
Capt Jack Harkness Samurai Navy Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 567 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 1	For sonar contacts to be detected they have to be at 10 dB or above, although they can be tracked below that level once detected. I think what happened is you never got the contact above 10 dB so sonar couldn't track it regardless of the other sensors picking it up. Looks like an oversight rather than an outright bug.

09-03-17, 05:09 AM	#5
pccl Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 10 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I mean... It's counterintuitive and I wish it's changed, but I can buy that. What is happening would be something close to the following: "There's a sound there, too faint to tell but it's probably not a ship... Maybe don't tell captain for now..." radar detects ship down that bearing "OH **** IT'S A SHIP OK YUP UH HUH TRACKING THAT CONTACT YES SIR HERE ARE THE NARROW BAND READINGS AND STUFF WE WERE GETTING SIR WE WERE DEFINITELY NOT SLEEPING ON THE JOB SIR"

09-03-17, 12:23 PM	#8
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	"Don't forget we don't know what the background noise is. At 110 db or so its quite possible for them not to have him on sonar." Good point. High noise level might explain everything. -Pv-

09-03-17, 03:23 PM	#10
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	"But sonar was tracking it, as you can see in the first screenshot. I have narrowband lines. Those go away as soon as the radar goes down. Doesn't make sense." Agreed. "I wasn't at 1.8k yards. Check the map scale. They're about 16k yards away." This again makes me wonder if the noise level combined with your radar activity caused you to be detected, the contact then slowed or changed heading reducing your ability to keep the passive sonar track under the conditions and 9 miles away. Added: The key would be to make this happen again and raise/lower your radar more than once to see if the sonar contact comes back with it raised. -Pv-