Question about torpedoes.

[dashyr]

Im using both TMO and OTC. I like having some realism inthese games but is it realistic to take like 3 torpedoes to sink a ship? There is surely something I do wrong so feel free to explain a bit. Im fairly new to these games... having played a bit of SH3 (Awesome game.. but sadly I find torpedo aiming to be a bit of a chore for german uboat.) im just wondering if its an actual problem with the game or I just need to gitgud and s*** it.


edit: i want to had that I waited like 2 days next to a medium tganker with HUGE gapingholes in its sider and it just stayed there..... id expect it to flood and sink.

[Majestik 909]

Having a background in the Navy, let me address your questions. Torpedo damage has many variables. In general, freighters will withstand much less damage than a multi-compartment warship. However, a review of actual u-boat war diaries mentions many accounts where a freighter was still afloat after multiple torpedo hits and the u-boat abandoned the attack.

The U.S.S. Hornet CV8, upon which my maternal Grandfather served as a DC, took 12 torpedo hits, 4 bombs' 2 Kamikaze's and 369 rounds of 5" shells without sinking, all of which is documented in the after-action report.

So it is indeed possible that a ship could survive the damage you describe...

[dashyr]

Thank you for your answer. I had recorded my gameplay so I watched it again. And it wasnt a merchant (wrong ID) . A warship so the multi compartment thingy is probably what happened. Thanks for the answer.. xD

[dashyr]

while I got you here. If im enjoying sh4... is sh5 worth it considering i dont really care much about graphics? is sh5 nothing more than a graphic update? (Considering im playing sh4 even if its almost the same than sh3, i just prefer american subs.)

[SilentPrey]

If you prefer American subs then SH4 is your game.

SH5 changed more than just graphics but it's back to U-boats.

[Majestik 909]

Multi-compartment warship construction is sometimes referred to as a torpedo defense system. It consists of a four-bulkhead system. The outboard layer of tanks is filled with liquid. Fuel oil service tanks in the second and third layers make up the rest of the system...somewhat like a honeycomb.

The fuel oik tanks can be counter-flooded with sea water to correct a list, a practice used extensively on Yamato.

I only have experience with SH4, so maybe one of the experts will chime in....

[Aktungbby]

dashyr!

[fireftr18]

Mk 14s early war were criminally terrible at best. They ran deed, igniters failed, and had premature explosions. From what I understand, TMO doesn't quite model the true failure rate. If I remember right, Ducimus said he didn't want to model the failure rate historically accurate because it would make the game too frustrating.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Majestik 909

Multi-compartment warship construction is sometimes referred to as a torpedo defense system. .......

I only have experience with SH4, so maybe one of the experts will chime in....

I can't remember where I read this, but the later designs of BB's had some very elaborate systems. Different nations used various ideas; some with empty space areas, liquid tanks, some used wood pulp, some using hollow tubes (that were supposed to absorb energy as they were crushed), armored bulkheads to stop metal fragments, and such. I got the impression that while ingenious, they were very expensive to build.

I'm not sure if any system was ever found to be better than the others. It seems that none were entirely satisfactory, but certainly made ships so protected, harder to sink.

I suspect that the most well protected battleships would be more vulnerable to bombs than torpedoes. Well designed bombs could still penetrate into the hull, and start fires, even if torpedoes could not seriously rupture the main hull compartments.

[Aktungbby]

I'm not sure if any system was ever found to be better than the others. It seems that none were entirely satisfactory, but certainly made ships so protected, harder to sink.

NOPE: worst case scenario; HMS BARHAM On the afternoon of 24 November, the 1st BS, Barham, Queen Elizabeth, and Valiant, with an escort of eight destroyers, departed Alexandria to cover the 7th and 15th Cruiser Squadrons as they hunted for Italian convoys in the Central Mediterranean. The following morning, the German submarine U-331, commanded by Oberleutnant zur SeeHans-Diedrich von Tiesenhausen, detected the faint engine noises of the British ships and moved to intercept. By the afternoon the submarine and the 1st BS were on reciprocal courses and von Tiesenhausen ordered his boat to battle stations around 16:00. An ASDIC operator aboard one of the leading destroyers, Jervis, detected the submarine at 16:18 at an estimated range of 900–1,100 yards (820–1,010 m), but the contact was disregarded as it subtended an angle between 40 to 60 degrees wide, far larger than a submarine. U-331 thus passed through the screen and was only in a position to fire her torpedoes after the leading ship, Queen Elizabeth, had passed her by and the second ship, Barham, was closing rapidly. Von Tiesenhausen ordered all four bow torpedo tubes fired at a range of 375 metres (410 yd) at 16:25. (Almost too close for the arming distance) Possibly due to her closeness to Valiant's bow wave and discharging the torpedoes, the boat's conning tower broached the surface and was fruitlessly engaged by one of the battleship's "pom-pom"s at a range of about 30 yards (27 m). The boat dived out of control after she broached, reaching an indicated depth of 265 metres (869 ft), well below her design depth of 150 metres (490 ft), before she stabilized without any damage. U-331 was not attacked by the escorting destroyers and reached port on 3 December. Von Tiesenhausen was not certain of the results of his attack and radioed that he had hit a Queen Elizabeth-class battleship with one torpedo.
There was no time for evasive action, and three of the four torpedoes struck amidships so closely together as to throw up a single massive water column. Barham quickly capsized to port and was lying on her side when a massive magazine explosion occurred aft about four minutes after she was torpedoed and sank her. The Court of Enquiry into the sinking ascribed the final magazine explosion to a fire in the 4-inch magazines outboard of the main 15-inch magazines, which would have then spread to and detonated the contents of the main magazines Due to the speed at which she sank, 862 officers and ratings were killed, including two who died of their wounds after being rescued. The destroyer Hotspur rescued some 337 survivors, including Vice-Admiral Henry Pridham-Wippell and the pair who later died of their wounds, while the Australian destroyer Nizam reportedly rescued some 150 men. The sinking was captured on film by a cameraman from Pathé News, aboard HMS Valiant. Modern torpedoes outclassed their (Elizabeth Class Battleships) torpedo belt protection: in November 1941, Barham, the least modernised of the quintet, sank in five minutes. Warspite survived a direct hit and two near-misses by a German glider bomb, while Queen Elizabeth and Valiant were repaired and returned to service after being badly damaged by limpet mines placed by Italian frogmen during a raid at Alexandria Harbour in 1941. Bottom line IMHO: Above the surface: fabulous big gun offense; below the surface: lousy defense! [wiki]

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim dashyr

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by Majestik 909

In general, freighters will withstand much less damage than a multi-compartment warship. However, a review of actual u-boat war diaries mentions many accounts where a freighter was still afloat after multiple torpedo hits and the u-boat abandoned the attack.

I did some digging on this subject to satisfy my own curiosity a while back. I don't have hard numbers. Basically, I just spent several hours looking into ships that got torpedoed, how many hits they took, etc. Both in the atlantic and the pacific. I have seen accounts of ships that took really stupendous amounts of damage without sinking. A few of the vessels I saw even took massive amounts of damage in multiple separate instances and survived.

That being said, as far as merchant targets are concerned, the opposite tended to be true. From what I saw, most merchant vessels where generally doomed if they took even a single torpedo hit.



In SH4, I find two torpedoes to be enough to get the job done most of the time. Assuming they both hit and don't malfunction.

[dashyr]

Daaamn. Such a warm welcome. Thank you guys... Its quite unexpected... this has to be the most friendly forum I ever registered on.

[Rockin Robbins]

Welcome to Subsim, dashyr!

I think one of the most maddening targets to sink is an empty tanker. They ride so high and have double bottoms that you can put a dozen torpedoes into and the inner hull remains untouched. They were nearly unsinkable in the real war.

[Majestik 909]

Prien sank Royal Oak with only 2 amidships, but open compartments and swinging turrets hastened the sinking....