Who Started World War II?

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Never claimed that the 'Workers paradise' was a force for good, but do you honestly think that we should have sided with Hitler against the Soviet Union in the 1930s?

Speaking as an American, my country should have stayed the hell out of it. But there were many Americans who had the same view that FDR threw in jail. For one, Lindbergh would have ended up behind bars if he were not so beloved by the American public.

You may not know it, but FDR had evil designs on YOUR empire and played Winnie like an old violin.

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by STEED

Not that old one..."icebreaker"

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p22_Bishop.html

I see that you just ignore Mr. Suvarov's article without addressing it. Isn't he a russian scholar?

[SS107.9MHz]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Yes, I think so. USSR was planning to invade Europe. But this is one more time another debate !

Next you'll be asking who started the spanish civil war and try to persuade us that those pesky leftists we're the ones to blame by winning the elections...

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

If this material is so massive that it requires a multi-person translation effort, then I suggest you condense the information you think is important to a post (or a few) detailing your main claims and arguments supporting them. [...] It'll be easier to stay on topic when there's something to debate about it, and it's also easier to discuss points made on the forum rather than trying to infer them from a reference document.

Yes it is.

1. WWII : The overwhelming english guilt.



2. A crime against peace, a crime against France.



Sorry, I fear that I can't condense the information. All aspects are important.

First, I can give you the plan of the argumentation. It is already a big job.

*

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

I mean war against Germany of course.

After Germany invaded Poland, I don't see why not.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Dealing with the Polish corridor, again you have to look to the Treaty of Versailles. There was really no precedent for carving out territory which had been part of Prussia/Germany for 150 years.

Even the Weimar republic refused to recognize the eastern frontier:

The Polish government also did not help by adopting blatant anti-german policies:

which led to an exodus of German refugees back to Germany proper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish...of_World_War_I

as many scholars have pointed out before, the Treaty of Versailles did not secure "peace in our time", it only sowed the seeds to an even bigger conflict.

The Polish Corridor was part of Polish-Lithuanian territory before it was annexed by Prussia in the late 18th century, it had a majority Polish population which steadily grew in the interwar period and was important to the Polish economy. Certainly its incorporation into Poland was one of many harsh terms the Treaty of Versailles inflicted on Germany, but I don't think it lacked precedent or somehow justified the German invasion, which wasn't interested solely in securing it to begin with.

Originally Posted by Joefour

I see that you just ignore Mr. Suvarov's article without addressing it. Isn't he a russian scholar?

Suvorov was a Soviet officer and turned into a historian after his defection. There are many problems with his arguments that the Soviet Union was immediately threatening to invade Germany, mostly relating to how the state of the Red Army at the time was utterly inadequate for this sort of operation, but sticking to the subject seems to be strictly maintained in this thread.

[Jimbuna]

Received a complaint the above (#229) brings issues to a members system (accompanied by some ad which prevents the recipient closing said file) so I'd appreciate it if you would save each page to a text file before posting in future.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Received a complaint the above (#229) brings issues to a members system (accompanied by some ad which prevents the recipient closing said file) so I'd appreciate it if you would save each page to a text file before posting in future.

Mmmh ... strange. These are only two screenshots of 2 documents written in french. I've posted them in order to show that it will be a big job to translate all this in english.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

Mmmh ... strange. These are only two screenshots of 2 documents written in french. I've posted them in order to show that it will be a big job to translate all this in english.

TBH I'm having difficulties also so there must be a problem here.

[Mr Quatro]

It helps to know who one is debating ... Mr Fahnenbohn can you please explain your user name?

I only found this interesting tidbit in researching your name ... not to injure your pride or anything.

http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/G...with-Nazi-link

Germany's highest court on Thursday rejected an appeal by a far-right party member and upheld a ban on three words appearing in sequence because of their link to a former anthem of the Nazi party, Reuters reported. The Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe rejected an appeal by a member of a far-right party who was fined 1,750 euros after he was convicted of wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with the words "die Fahnen hoch" in 2007.

The court said the words, which appeared as the final part of an eight-word slogan on the shirt and literally translate as "the flags on high," were too similar to the opening line of the Nazi anthem, the Horst Wessel song. "

[razark]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

I've posted them in order to show that it will be a big job to translate all this in english.

Why don't you start by stating your strongest arguments, in your own words? That will give the people here some idea of what your case is, and allow you time to work on getting the reference documents translated. If something comes up in discussion, you can then spend the effort on that specific point, and the discussion can carry on. Otherwise, you will continue to complain about people not addressing the arguments and continue to seem evasive about actually presenting your view.

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

TBH I'm having difficulties also so there must be a problem here.

I'm having problems with the docs also. When I click on them or try to zoom in they go out of focus to the point where they are illegible.

[Jimbuna]

I will add at this juncture that we need to make progress because failure to do so will eventually turn into a position or claim of being 'disingenuous' and my patience is not infinite.

Make your point and let the debate flourish or let the natural consequence become a reality.

[August]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

This is fabulous ! You are saying that one side is right BEFORE the debate has took place. Really fabulous !

No this debate took place long ago in a town called Nurenburg Germany under the eyes of the entire world by people not hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.

This debate was conducted in great form and detail and resulted in a bunch of criminals getting their just deserts. I fail to see the value in repeating this debate ad nauseum just because one side doesn't want to face up to their criminal history.

[Joefour]

Originally Posted by August

No this debate took place long ago in a town called Nurenburg Germany under the eyes of the entire world by people not hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.

This debate was conducted in great form and detail and resulted in a bunch of criminals getting their just deserts. I fail to see the value in repeating this debate ad nauseum just because one side doesn't want to face up to their criminal history.

Partypooper! I think it's interesting and want to see where it goes.

[Fahnenbohn]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Make your point and let the debate flourish or let the natural consequence become a reality.

OK. In my next post, I will write the synthesis of the argumentation, without all the details and sources, all quotes, and so on. I think this is the best way. If you want the proof of what I say, I will explain you in more details.