Escort see me without pinging

[aya]

@RussaX37: Good point mate. I should read more tutorials on hunting with the hydrophone.

@sailor_X: My educated guess is that they've heard you in the first place, maybe, while positioning yourself ahead of the convoy or when you're catching up to them. With that, the escorts will start doing a [paranoid] pattern search around the convoy. I've caught the attention of one destroyer just by approaching them (my mistake) - good thing I sank the poor warship first.

Errr.... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Nop, there were dozens of times during my careers when my boat happens to be well submerged doing slow speed in 30 meters depth even in silent running while patrolling DD accidently takes course towards me if distance is close enough he spots me no matter what. This is somewhat annoying and is lacking a logical explanation and I usually used to blame imperfect DD sensors of SH3 though.

[Paulebaer1979]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

Nop, there were dozens of times during my careers when my boat happens to be well submerged doing slow speed in 30 meters depth even in silent running while patrolling DD accidently takes course towards me if distance is close enough he spots me no matter what. This is somewhat annoying and is lacking a logical explanation and I usually used to blame imperfect DD sensors of SH3 though.

I`m unable to explain this. When you are deeper than peridepth and run in silent mode the escorts should not be able to find you. I believe that in the sensor-management of the escorts is a small bug. Perhaps someone could check the passiv sonar performance?

[RussaX37]

Originally Posted by Paulebaer1979

I`m unable to explain this. When you are deeper than peridepth and run in silent mode the escorts should not be able to find you. I believe that in the sensor-management of the escorts is a small bug. Perhaps someone could check the passiv sonar performance?

[maillemaker]

I'm not sure where this idea of complete invisibility comes from.

You can do everything right and still get detected! The closer you are, the greater your chances of being detected. The closer to being broadside to the escort, the greater your chances of being detected. If you raise your periscope, the greater your chances of being detected. The later in the war, the greater your chances of being detected. The calmer the seas, the greater your chances of being detected.

All this is true even if you are at silent running and low RPMs.

If you run across the bow of an escort, even at silent speed, odds are good you will be detected.

Just chalk it up to someone dropping a wrench or farting too loud in the head.

Steve

[Kielhauler1961]

Periscope glass reflection from the sun? It wouldn't surprise me in this game and I take care never to leave my 'scope up for more than a few seconds at a time. Follow the link on the RN 'Perisher' course and you will see what I mean about proper periscope discipline. There was a BBC documentary about it many years ago. I remember it well and its lessons have been a great help to me in my SH3 'careers'.

In GWX there are some elite DD's with crack crews that have every sensor available running at maximum efficiency, unlike us.

They can DF radio chatter, pick you up beyond normal visual or sonar detection range and probably even 'smell' you underwater.

The No. 1 sub-killer, Johnnie Walker, had a team of ASDIC (and later Radar) specialists who had an uncanny nose for finding a contact and these guys just get better and more numerous as the war drags on.

Perisher link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_Course

Walker link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_John_Walker

BBC 'Perisher' Documentary Part 1 (you won't be disappointed):

Take care, it's dangerous out there.

KH

edit: If we can 'cheat' by tweaking our boats and/or crews beyond historical limits, we cannot complain if our enemies do exactly the same...

[maillemaker]

The four-month course is run in four stages, the first and third involve learning ashore in simulators, while the second involves learning at sea. The fourth phase is the assessment, during which the candidates (of which the maximum is six) show their ability to command a submarine unaided during war-like conditions. The success rate for the SMCC is only 70% and, on failing, candidates are prevented from serving on submarines in any capacity.

What the heck is the purpose of that????

Steve

[Kielhauler1961]

@ Steve,

It's the same principle why many airlines will not allow a co-pilot who has failed to make the grade for Captain to serve aboard a commercial aircraft after the event. American Airlines, I believe, brought this in and it has been adopted by other carriers, but not all.

Failure brings career ruin, an end of dreams. Some can accept that but many cannot.

There have been instances of failures being allowed to continue serving in a junior capacity in the past which have brought disaster. Some were deliberate as a way of getting 'even' with the system that rejected them, others because they were not competant anyway and should have been dismissed but slipped through the system.

It cannot be allowed for a failed professional to endanger any vehicle by design or by accident - they have been tested and found wanting and the system demands that they be rejected for the safety of others. That is the cardinal rule in safety-critical professional situations.

One strike and you're out. Where lives are at stake, there is no second chance.

KH

[maillemaker]

I just watched it, I felt very bad for the guys who did not make it.

It seems to me a terrible waste of resources. To take people with a decade's worth of naval experience, experience sufficient to even put one in the running for command, and then to throw it away because they were unable to pass the test.

I guess I can see this thought that someone rejected by "the system" might harbor resentments about that and try and sabotage the system in retribution, but I would think that someone able to make it into command school would be above that sort of thing.

I suppose they have more candidates than subs so they can afford to be choosy.

Steve

[RussaX37]

I watched too. Seems very stressfull. Yeah it really shame to be rejected after that long time and never be able to come back.

[maillemaker]

I'm also astonished by the up and down calesthenics of the periscope. I wonder today if they even use them with actual human-eye-optics.

I could see a periscope with a "head" made up of dozens of cameras that aim in a complete 360 degree circle, probably smaller in profile than an optical scope.

You pop this thing up above the water for 2 seconds, let it record hi-res images/movies, then pull it down and analyze it on a computer screen. Probably have a computer do relative motion analysis and tracking all by itself.

Steve

[Kielhauler1961]

I sympathised with the guy who had fishing boats on the brain.

I have a similar problem with motor vessels off the East coast of England but, unlike the peacetime sailors in the film, I can at least sink them.

KH

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

I'm also astonished by the up and down calesthenics of the periscope. I wonder today if they even use them with actual human-eye-optics.

I could see a periscope with a "head" made up of dozens of cameras that aim in a complete 360 degree circle, probably smaller in profile than an optical scope.

You pop this thing up above the water for 2 seconds, let it record hi-res images/movies, then pull it down and analyze it on a computer screen. Probably have a computer do relative motion analysis and tracking all by itself.

Steve

As far as I have read the Virginia SSNs and some others boats of the very latest models actually do have what you describe.

[Kielhauler1961]

RN pioneered their development and they equip the Astute class subs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonics_mast

KH

[RussaX37]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

I'm also astonished by the up and down calesthenics of the periscope. I wonder today if they even use them with actual human-eye-optics.

I could see a periscope with a "head" made up of dozens of cameras that aim in a complete 360 degree circle, probably smaller in profile than an optical scope.

You pop this thing up above the water for 2 seconds, let it record hi-res images/movies, then pull it down and analyze it on a computer screen. Probably have a computer do relative motion analysis and tracking all by itself.

Steve

Yeah I'm wondering too what they are using on the latest models and does they even use any kind of pericope which goes on surface.