How Clever Is The AI?

Gustav Schiebert · 11-14-13, 09:07 AM

I was hoping someone with a more in-depth knowledge of SH3 and GWX 3.0 could tell me more about how the AI operates ships.

If I see a rowing boat or armed tug and decide not so sink it, but he sees me, does he literally radio his friends? Can he steer others onto my position?
If I damage a ship, will it signal for help, and does this actually send other ships after me, or just increase the probability that I'll come across the enemy?
Do things like suspicious noises, torpedo trails etc cause 'suspicion' or is it a binary they-see-you-or-they-don't system?

Basically, I have a lot of experience of being chased by planes after escaping a convoy, of destroyers coming after me and even running into the same ship (Nelson) twice on one patrol, three weeks apart. I'd like to know a little more about the mechanics of how the game manifests real life effects. I've always wondered if there was a 'draw distance' around the boat that randomly puts in ships as you approach an area, or is it a bit more complex?

I have tried reading the f-ing manual and looking through some of the notepad files, but being a bit of a Luddite this has failed to get me anywhere. If anything asking this question makes me appreciate all the more the efforts of the modders and the knowledge/helpfulness of the community at large, so thanks to all of you chaps and ladies for what you all do, as always

RConch · 11-14-13, 09:53 AM

I don't know the answers, but your questions are certainly ones I have wondered about over the years.
Thanks for asking.

Dread Knot · 11-14-13, 10:06 AM

I guess the question for me isn't how clever is the AI, but how much does the game model higher HQ events outside the sensory range of my U-Boat? It was pretty common by late 1943 to 45, for a hunter-killer group (if available) to be dispatched to the site of a recent U-Boat kill, or even a U-Boat radio intercept and attempt to find and box the U-Boat in. But I'm never sure if the reason I run into one is because of a previous deed, or it's just that the sim environment is spawning ASW forces at an unholy rate by 1944.

Gustav Schiebert · 11-14-13, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

I guess the question for me ... unholy rate by 1944.

I was trying to make a punchy title for the forum, but that is my problem/question in a nutshell, much better put than by me.

the dark knight · 11-14-13, 10:25 AM

I do know that merchants can radio in help. Just today I was attacking an Empire Freighter and he called in a PT boat to assist him. I have also had fighter-bombers show up in the midst of me attacking a merchant. I also had a merchant yesterday notice the bubble stream from my torpedo, and turned at the last second. The torpedo still hit, but that is the first time that has happened to me.

desertstriker · 11-14-13, 02:32 PM

The AI is not the best but it is still pretty good for the time the game was made. the AI does radio for help snd I have had ships come after me after damaging a ship but often the ships radioed in go to the damaged guy first (you can use this to your advantage if you are trying to sneak somewhere. As for suspcion it dependes on what it is. If you hit a ship they will search for you but they may not spot you so I am going with spotted or not. without the SDK it will be difficult to accuratly answer and fix these AI behaviors

Jimbuna · 11-14-13, 03:57 PM

The AI question is one many have pondered over the years but suffice to say...it is good enough to bring your career to an end should you take uncalculated risks.

Gustav Schiebert · 11-15-13, 06:49 AM

Thanks for all the responses! I think, as most people seem to say, treat the AI as if it's human-directed, since that's how it seems to act most of the time. Silent and deep...

desirableroasted · 11-15-13, 08:22 PM

In GWX, the merchants do not see torpedo steam trails.

If they see you, they will begin to serpentine, but on the same course and speed. They will not go to flank, turn to evade, etc.

Naval vessels, however, can see steam trails. Escorts will immediately do their job. Naval vessels in convoys (like a Romney in the middle of a convoy) will react like a merchant.

I realized this long ago, and routinely fire bubblies at merchants. In broad daylight in calm water from a mile off they haven't a clue.

Perhaps, later in the war, they might have crews skilled enough to do this, but who is using bubblies then, anyway?

AndreasT · 11-17-13, 10:11 AM

Later on in the war I do think that they are quite smart. I have attacked ships and suddenly destroyers and planes show up looking for me.
A bit off topic, but I was wondering if in real life could the allies hear the torpedoes coming in. As far as I know late on in the war they could hear an uboot running at silent speed from far away.
Considering the torpedoes are running at a relatively high speed.

Marcello · 11-17-13, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreasT

Later on in the war I do think that they are quite smart. I have attacked ships and suddenly destroyers and planes show up looking for me.
A bit off topic, but I was wondering if in real life could the allies hear the torpedoes coming in. As far as I know late on in the war they could hear an uboot running at silent speed from far away.
Considering the torpedoes are running at a relatively high speed.

Torpedo detectors were installed on merchants but it seems that more often than not they would pick up the torpedo too late for any effective evasive action to be taken. Allied passive sound gear was in general less capable than german equivalents, they had concentrated development on active sonar instead which was much more useful for them (imagine trying to detect a relatively quiet sub with hydrophones among the cacophony generated by a convoy).

Marcello · 11-18-13, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

I guess the question for me isn't how clever is the AI, but how much does the game model higher HQ events outside the sensory range of my U-Boat? It was pretty common by late 1943 to 45, for a hunter-killer group (if available) to be dispatched to the site of a recent U-Boat kill, or even a U-Boat radio intercept and attempt to find and box the U-Boat in. But I'm never sure if the reason I run into one is because of a previous deed, or it's just that the sim environment is spawning ASW forces at an unholy rate by 1944.

Usually I see I can stick around for few hours to check whether a torpedoed ship is going to go down or need an extra torpedo without any plane showing up. Only once a DE came to the merchant rescue but then given the distances and the time involved it is reasonable that surface ships would not have the time to react.

11-14-13, 09:07 AM	#1
Gustav Schiebert Sparky Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: AM52 Posts: 151 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	How Clever Is The AI? I was hoping someone with a more in-depth knowledge of SH3 and GWX 3.0 could tell me more about how the AI operates ships. If I see a rowing boat or armed tug and decide not so sink it, but he sees me, does he literally radio his friends? Can he steer others onto my position? If I damage a ship, will it signal for help, and does this actually send other ships after me, or just increase the probability that I'll come across the enemy? Do things like suspicious noises, torpedo trails etc cause 'suspicion' or is it a binary they-see-you-or-they-don't system? Basically, I have a lot of experience of being chased by planes after escaping a convoy, of destroyers coming after me and even running into the same ship (Nelson) twice on one patrol, three weeks apart. I'd like to know a little more about the mechanics of how the game manifests real life effects. I've always wondered if there was a 'draw distance' around the boat that randomly puts in ships as you approach an area, or is it a bit more complex? I have tried reading the f-ing manual and looking through some of the notepad files, but being a bit of a Luddite this has failed to get me anywhere. If anything asking this question makes me appreciate all the more the efforts of the modders and the knowledge/helpfulness of the community at large, so thanks to all of you chaps and ladies for what you all do, as always __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] GWX 3 + OLC Gold + 100% Realism + Commander "Attack! Always attack!"

11-14-13, 09:53 AM	#2
RConch Captain Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: No. Virginia Posts: 619 Downloads: 518 Uploads: 0	I don't know the answers, but your questions are certainly ones I have wondered about over the years. Thanks for asking. __________________ "Noch und Noch" Prowling the Nord Atlantik with GWX 3.0.

11-14-13, 10:25 AM	#5
the dark knight Bosun Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Blue Springs, MO Posts: 64 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I do know that merchants can radio in help. Just today I was attacking an Empire Freighter and he called in a PT boat to assist him. I have also had fighter-bombers show up in the midst of me attacking a merchant. I also had a merchant yesterday notice the bubble stream from my torpedo, and turned at the last second. The torpedo still hit, but that is the first time that has happened to me. __________________ Life is a matter of luck, and the odds in favor of success are no way enhanced by extreme caution. - Erich Topp

11-14-13, 03:57 PM	#7
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The AI question is one many have pondered over the years but suffice to say...it is good enough to bring your career to an end should you take uncalculated risks. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-15-13, 06:49 AM	#8
Gustav Schiebert Sparky Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: AM52 Posts: 151 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the responses! I think, as most people seem to say, treat the AI as if it's human-directed, since that's how it seems to act most of the time. Silent and deep... __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] GWX 3 + OLC Gold + 100% Realism + Commander "Attack! Always attack!"

11-14-13, 10:06 AM	#3
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I guess the question for me isn't how clever is the AI, but how much does the game model higher HQ events outside the sensory range of my U-Boat? It was pretty common by late 1943 to 45, for a hunter-killer group (if available) to be dispatched to the site of a recent U-Boat kill, or even a U-Boat radio intercept and attempt to find and box the U-Boat in. But I'm never sure if the reason I run into one is because of a previous deed, or it's just that the sim environment is spawning ASW forces at an unholy rate by 1944.

11-14-13, 02:32 PM	#6
desertstriker Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2012 Location: mod soup bar and grill Posts: 1,756 Downloads: 998 Uploads: 0	The AI is not the best but it is still pretty good for the time the game was made. the AI does radio for help snd I have had ships come after me after damaging a ship but often the ships radioed in go to the damaged guy first (you can use this to your advantage if you are trying to sneak somewhere. As for suspcion it dependes on what it is. If you hit a ship they will search for you but they may not spot you so I am going with spotted or not. without the SDK it will be difficult to accuratly answer and fix these AI behaviors

11-15-13, 08:22 PM	#9
desirableroasted Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: In the mountains, now. On the edge of the sea before. Posts: 933 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	No, the merchants do not see torpedoes In GWX, the merchants do not see torpedo steam trails. If they see you, they will begin to serpentine, but on the same course and speed. They will not go to flank, turn to evade, etc. Naval vessels, however, can see steam trails. Escorts will immediately do their job. Naval vessels in convoys (like a Romney in the middle of a convoy) will react like a merchant. I realized this long ago, and routinely fire bubblies at merchants. In broad daylight in calm water from a mile off they haven't a clue. Perhaps, later in the war, they might have crews skilled enough to do this, but who is using bubblies then, anyway? __________________ "Well, now, that's true... the IXC is a bit of a chick magnet..but you really can't beat the VIIB for off-road fun."

11-17-13, 10:11 AM	#10
AndreasT Loader Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Berlin, Germany. Posts: 89 Downloads: 180 Uploads: 0	Later on in the war I do think that they are quite smart. I have attacked ships and suddenly destroyers and planes show up looking for me. A bit off topic, but I was wondering if in real life could the allies hear the torpedoes coming in. As far as I know late on in the war they could hear an uboot running at silent speed from far away. Considering the torpedoes are running at a relatively high speed.