interesting documentary interviews

[InvisibleDeath]

Some interesting facts from the people that were there during the action.

Planes: In the early part of the war no planes had anything for attacking uboats.
Escorts: Only wanted to drive uboats below and did not try to sink any subs.

"If you were on a merchant that carried ammo, you get hit with one torpedo and the ship disintegrated. If you were on a tanker carrying gas, one torpedo and it would be a massive fireball and the ship would disintegrate."

The merchants were under order that no surviviors would be rescued under order s of the British Military!!! So my experience of a convoy leaving two lame duck merchant ships behind ended up to simulate reality quite well.

[Cybermat47]

Here are some more

[plj]

[SnipersHunter]

Nice

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by InvisibleDeath

Some interesting claims from the people that were there during the action.

Because some people said it doesn't make it so.

Planes: In the early part of the war no planes had anything for attacking uboats.

No planes? Anything? They didn't carry depth charges yet, but they had bombs and while .303 calibre guns wouldn't penetrate a pressure hull they would certainly kill anyone on deck at the time. In April 1940 U-64 was sunk by a bomb from a Swordfish carried on the battleship HMS Warspite.

Escorts: Only wanted to drive uboats below and did not try to sink any subs.

Tell that to Gerhard Glattes. Johannes Franz. Rolf Dau. Alexander Gelhaar. Horst Wellner. Werner Lott. All killed or captured by British destroyers in 1939.

"If you were on a tanker carrying gas, one torpedo and it would be a massive fireball and the ship would disintegrate."

Well, exept for SS San Demetrio, when the crew abandoned the burning tanker only to have it make a big circle and come back later, with the fires extenguished by themselves. The crew reboarded and made port safely.

The merchants were under order that no surviviors would be rescued under order s of the British Military!!! So my experience of a convoy leaving two lame duck merchant ships behind ended up to simulate reality quite well.

Except for when they had a ship specifically assigned to play rearguard and pick up survivors. Or when an escort did it.

[plj]

To be fair, he didnt pretend the claims where true .. he just relayed some stuff .. and if he hadnt, I wouldnt have read it, nor your correction

[InvisibleDeath]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Because some people said it doesn't make it so.

Because you say doesn't make it so. These people were there, you were not. And in many cases they were talking about the first week or so of the war. England was not prepared for war and in some cases it showed.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No planes? Anything? They didn't carry depth charges yet, but they had bombs and while .303 calibre guns wouldn't penetrate a pressure hull they would certainly kill anyone on deck at the time. In April 1940 U-64 was sunk by a bomb from a Swordfish carried on the battleship HMS Warspite.

The pilot they interviewed stated that with the type of planes they were sent up with they had nothing to attack the subs. Yes, nothing. Watch the fracking documentary instead of attacking me.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Tell that to Gerhard Glattes. Johannes Franz. Rolf Dau. Alexander Gelhaar. Horst Wellner. Werner Lott. All killed or captured by British destroyers in 1939.

And are you not aware of how closely the military followed their leaders directions once they were in the field by themselves?

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well, exept for SS San Demetrio, when the crew abandoned the burning tanker only to have it make a big circle and come back later, with the fires extenguished by themselves. The crew reboarded and made port safely.

Sure, Steve, there were always exceptions. That is Murphy at full work there. For example there was Fritz-Julius Lemp who abandoned his UBoat thinking it would sink and it did not. These quotes were also from people stating what it felt like at the time. If you were on a merchant tanker carrying gas, you felt that your ship would be vaporized at any time by a UBoat. It didn't mean it would happen.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Except for when they had a ship specifically assigned to play rearguard and pick up survivors. Or when an escort did it.

But THOSE ships, as you yourself EXPLICITLY STATED were assigned to do that. They were not ships in the convoy turning to get survivors. So what is your fracking point??

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by plj

To be fair, he didnt pretend the claims where true .. he just relayed some stuff .. and if he hadnt, I wouldnt have read it, nor your correction

I didn't say he did. My point is simply that not everything said, even by the people who were there, can be trusted. Yes, these kinds of shows are fascinating, and new things are always to be learned, but no show, no matter how many hours, can tell all the details, and sometimes their claims are erroneous.

Originally Posted by InvisibleDeath

Because you say doesn't make it so. These people were there, you were not. And in many cases they were talking about the first week or so of the war. England was not prepared for war and in some cases it showed.

I pointed out specific examples. When you said "early in the war" I took it to mean the first year or so. If you meant the first week I apologize.

The pilot they interviewed stated that with the type of planes they were sent up with they had nothing to attack the subs. Yes, nothing. Watch the fracking documentary instead of attacking me.

First, I didn't attack you at all. I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I am disagreeing with what you said. You didn't say "the type of planes they were sent up in". You said "no planes", and that's what I responded to. What type of plane was he talking about?

And are you not aware of how closely the military followed their leaders directions once they were in the field by themselves?

What specific directions are you talking about? You said "escorts only wanted to drive u-boats below and did not try to sink any subs". I responded directly to that by pointing out that with one exception every u-boat sunk in 1939 was sunk by escorts.

Sure, Steve, there were always exceptions. That is Murphy at full work there. For example there was Fritz-Julius Lemp who abandoned his UBoat thinking it would sink and it did not. These quotes were also from people stating what it felt like at the time. If you were on a merchant tanker carrying gas, you felt that your ship would be vaporized at any time by a UBoat. It didn't mean it would happen.

Fair enough.

But THOSE ships, as you yourself EXPLICITLY STATED were assigned to do that. They were not ships in the convoy turning to get survivors. So what is your fracking point??

No need to shout. You're right again, and I apologize. My point was that we shouldn't take anything any one source claims as gospel. Certain things you said leaped off the screen at me, because I've not only seen many documentaries, I've also read many accounts, narratives and reports.

Again, I didn't attack you, I took exception to a couple of the things you said. You worded them, to me at least, as flat absolute statements, and I disagreed. I backed up my disagreement with showable facts.

[Bilge_Rat]

The reason ships were ordered not to stop was because if they did stop to rescue survivors, they would be torpedoed by U-Boats. Much easier to torpedo a stationary ship than a moving one.

The RN tried stopping in WW1...it did not work out too well...

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/cressy.htm

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

The reason ships were ordered not to stop was because if they did stop to rescue survivors, they would be torpedoed by U-Boats. Much easier to torpedo a stationary ship than a moving one.

Very true. This also led to trouble for u-boats later when they tried to get help for ships they had sunk (see Laconia incident).

The RN tried stopping in WW1...it did not work out too well...

Indeed. I've always thought it funny that the British took advantage of u-boat captains' honor by developing the Q-ship, then cried foul when that led to the Germans declaring unrestricted submarine warfare.