Catholic Transparency...

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

the Church should be downgraded to the level of amateur socker or cricket or baseball or basketball teams when it comes to privileges and extra rights.

Personally, I'm not even sure why the Church has to be an international organization. I can understand the need for some, like St. Vincent de Paul's, but do we really need one telling us to worship God? Surely all we need is a local Church building.

[HundertzehnGustav]

we need a good ole brainwashing to keep the robes rich, the little boys shut up and the masses scared to (of) death and hell and destruction.

sometimes i think the masses get the religious institutions they deserve, no more, no less.

but Violation? Of Young Kids?
there, for me everything comes to a screeching halt...

[August]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

Personally, I'm not even sure why the Church has to be an international organization. I can understand the need for some, like St. Vincent de Paul's, but do we really need one telling us to worship God? Surely all we need is a local Church building.

Already been done. It's called Protestantism.

[Cybermat47]

Oh yeah, I forgot about them.

I thought that I was a Protestant for quite some time, then I found out I was Anglican

[August]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

very good.
the Church should be downgraded to the level of amateur socker or cricket or baseball or basketball teams when it comes to privileges and extra rights.

Anyone objecting investigations shall be treated as a potential suspect and abuser.

now that would be fun to watch...
Squeal, pope, squeal!

Too bad you'll never be in a position to decide...

[HundertzehnGustav]

says who?
we'll see that in two years
when i help deciding on how the public will keep or not keep funding religions.

Cut their money, cut their position

[August]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

says who?
we'll see that in two years
when i help deciding on how the public will keep or not keep funding religions.

Cut their money, cut their position

Maybe in your,... is it a real full fledged country or a Some kind of independent Dutchy that you live in? Anyways that'll be the day when a Luxembourger decides how anyone outside of Luxembourg will treat their religions.

You'll never be "The Mouse That Roared"...

[HundertzehnGustav]

you failed at Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg

• Luxembourg's independence was reaffirmed by the 1839 First Treaty of London
• it is headed by a grand duke and is the world's only remaining grand duchy
• Luxembourg is one of the world's most developed countries, with an advanced economy and the world's highest GDP (PPP) per capita, according to the World Bank.
• Luxembourg is a secular state,

What do you expect me to answer?
I know - you do not expect an answer per se. [say] all you want is to poke a stick at me.

I am Christian enough to forgive you that.
and the reason is not to pile up riches in heaven, but because i pity you.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Which leads me to an other interesting article on Wiki, about my own small country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Luxembourg

Since 1979 it has been illegal for the government to collect statistics on religious beliefs or practices.[5] It is estimated by the CIA Factbook that 87% of Luxembourgers are Roman Catholics, the remaining 13% being made up of Protestants, Muslims, Eastern Orthodox Christians and Jews those of other or no religion.[6]
According to the most recent Eurobarometer Poll 2005,[2]

• 44% of Luxembourgish citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".
• 28% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force".
• 22% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force".

To sum it up:
35 years ago, the CIA reconed we were almost all catholics.
a quick check shows that this has las been updated in 2000, and still has not been changed.

2005 less than half the people said there must be a god,
less than a third knew there must be something, but no real clue what, and the rest had dropped the subject altogether.

Good.

As a conclusion:
The information that the CIA presents on the CIA factbook is not accurate.
The two letters B and S come to mind.

As an addition:
It is difficult to underatsnd or grasp a country that one is not living in, only by information in books and the net.

I am Christian enough to forgive you that.
and the reason is not to pile up riches in heaven, but because i pity you.

That is probably one of the best replies in a long time.

[HundertzehnGustav]

To get back to the original Subject, i propose the followingh article:
http://www.katholisch.de/de/katholis...reaktionen.php

While the Clergii and the catholic hierarchy are all wound up about the end of the cooperation, and are mad at mister pfeiffer because that guy said the Church wants to censure stuff... they are manoevering to keep their faces.
They tried to shut mister Pfeiffer up, and he refuses to play the game.
Now the Church sends the Lawyers, and the whole subject shifts towards a small bickering:
"small independent researcher verusus the church and its reputation"
--> bad.

While at the same time a jesuit says that the Victims of the abuse as well as the churches' actions and reactions must be the center of the topic at hand.
--> GOOD!
The central Commitee of the german Catholics says, there is not smokescreens being laid over cases of abuse by the catholic church.
the church is transparent, and will keeb being transparent.

--> are you kidding me? The church has been one of the most un-transparent institutions ever... transparency is not beneficial to them, on any level of their activities.
Mysterium of God and life, believing rather than knowing is their forté. Transparency and clear knowledge by facts and tests... isn't.



=========================================

Article:
we are having some issues, but will remain on topic.
we will continue our covering up of abuse (of many kinds) and will report to the the state law and the public on that.

meh: B.S. propaganda a la Goebbels.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

The central Commitee of the german Catholics says, there is not smokescreens being laid over cases of abuse by the catholic church.
the church is transparent, and will keeb being transparent.

That organisation is an alliance by church representatives of the dioceses and Catholic-run offices and institutions.

It is not to be mistaken with the - far greater and far more representative for the believers' community - Catholic Laymen Organisation, where ordinary people not holding official posts in the hierarchy have gathered and organised themselves, and which on many issues is in opposition to official church doctrine. This is not just some hobby debating club of some wannabe-VIPs. They run their own social infrastructure and their own social institutions. Beside this organisation, there are several other comparable ones run and maintained by church laymen.

So far the church could afford to simply ignore any opposition by such organisations, since they use to shy away from seriously challenging the church's self-claimed authority when the going threatens to get tougher.

[u crank]

I am having a hard time understanding the legal process in this case. If a crime has been committed and a complaint has been made, why does the German legal system need the separate or internal investigation of any organization (KFN), in order to proceed with it's duty to bring the criminals to justice.

I find it hard to understand why the police cannot issue a subpoena and examine these personal records. Am I missing something?

[August]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

I am Christian enough to forgive you that.
and the reason is not to pile up riches in heaven, but because i pity you.

Yeah like I care what you forgive or pity.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

I am having a hard time understanding the legal process in this case. If a crime has been committed and a complaint has been made, why does the German legal system need the separate or internal investigation of any organization (KFN), in order to proceed with it's duty to bring the criminals to justice.

I find it hard to understand why the police cannot issue a subpoena and examine these personal records. Am I missing something?

Church law in parts overrules state law, not only in Germany, btw. One of the exceptional privileges that secular critics like me are so outraged about. Others are legalised tax evasion, diplomatic status, to name just the most obvious.

If I would do like the church legally can do, I would rot in jail.

Not to mention the openly criminal activities by the church. If you want I can give you a small list with German books by prominent church critics who after having analysed the suspect have left n othing of him than shreddered pieces. It is organised crime, plain and simple.