US carriers in danger!

[Skybird]

Beware of the Huns coming.

According to very few German media reports, U32 will set sail for rendezvous with the USN off the US coast to participate in naval exercises from March on. It will cross the Atlantic with just one stop at the Azores.

The Americans want to see if they now can defend their carrier groups against submarines of the latest generation now. The Germans are focussed on testing a brandnew passive sonarsystem of theirs, and to try new tactics.

Captain and crew expect to be completely invisible for every passive sonar the US can mount against them, they say. They are eager to repeat the success of U24 which in 2001 during excercise JTFEX 01-2 successfully penetrated USN Enteprise's ASW screen and fired green smoke next to the carriers hull, "at collision proximity", as the German article says.

IMO, such exercises are of vital interest for the US, for the Americna side ven more than the German, since in the past the USN has experienced alarming weaknesses against modern submarines of new designs, with the Swedish Gotland having run circles at will around USN units for over one year when the boat was stationed in America by US request for longer practicing opportunity. With the Navy having rang alarm bells last year over a substantial loss of ASW in American naval forces, due to loss of air- and sea-stationed ASW power, and modern submarine technology spreading wild and turning Chinese and Russian boats more and more into dangerous opponents again, and European countries selling their equipment into the Middle East, the loss of capability in ASW indeed is a worrying perspective for the US, considering its new global centre of gravity is in the Western pacific.

The exercising with the German boat will not be an encouraging experience for the USN, I strongly assume - everything else would be a very big surprise. The 212 is at least as undetectable (passively) as the Gotlands are, and also almost undetectable for magnetic sensors. Maximum time for staying underwater is rumoured to be minimum 18 days.

Don't ask me, they gave no pieces on this new German sonar, if you wanted to ask for curiosity. Only that it is passive.


And this boat the Germans want to sell to - Egypt.

[AVGWarhawk]

The USN ASW has been penetrated at will for decades. Seems there are no improvements. Then again, keeping up with submarine tech and ways to combat it may not be completely possible.

Details from Captain Edwards:
"The pictures were taken during a Med deployment in the Fall of '63 or Spring of '64.
Torsk was opposing a transit of a large task force. The carrier CO and the Screen
Commander insisted no green flares (simulated torpedo firing) were sighted and no screen
penetration had taken place. When I produced the photos, both just about wet their pants.
Fred."

[ETR3(SS)]

The advantage in ASW is decidedly in favor of the submarine. Surface and air units are good at prosecuting a submerged contact once found, but the problem lies in detection. A CVBG clipping along at 30kts, even 10 kts, makes a hell of a lot of noise thus putting the submarine at a tactical advantage. That's why a CVBG has a submarine escort positioned ahead of it.
I remember training with our own ASW forces. We were restricted in our water space and they were pretty much told where we were from the get go. Even then we managed to "sink" them and that was on an Ohio SSBN!

[HundertzehnGustav]

...drumbeat 2k13
sink'em all!!

http://uboat.net/boats/u32.htm

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by HundertzehnGustav

...drumbeat 2k13
sink'em all!!

http://uboat.net/boats/u32.htm

[Armistead]

When they know where you are, it may be easy, during war, it take a lot of luck to get a course.

[Oberon]

Let's hope that the rules are deployed fairly, and U32 is given ample opportunity to prove her worth.

Good hunting U32!

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The USN ASW has been penetrated at will for decades.

But as is commonly known, all of those cases have been, are and will be brilliant strategic decisions by the USN, which has appeared weaker in peace time than it really is and therefore cunningly fed its enemies false information and created false sense of security for them.

Source: the Internuts.

[Cybermat47]

From the name of this thread, and the icon, I thought that Skybird was setting out to plant bombs on US ships

[Takeda Shingen]

Well, the USN hasn't really had a viable widespead submarine opponent since the end of the Cold War, and the lack of attention to that aspect of the training is beginning to show, as the rest of the world has caught up, and in some cases, surpassed us.

The USN still has a formidable ASW presence, but we don't obsess over over it like we did against the Soviets.

[TarJak]

Even our "noisy" Collins class boats were successful against both USN surface and submarine assets during excersices some years ago.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...222635806.html
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news_updates/nz1839.htm

Gute jagd U32. I'm sure the results will be similar if not better.

[Rhodes]

Our old navy sub, daphné class, was detected as a trawler in US sonars...

[Hawk66]

It's funny that now F220 Hamburg (AAW FFG, similar like the US AEGIS system) also travels to the east coast to join the CVN Harry S. Truman for 6 months - after some exercises they will be travelling through the Suez canal. (Info about the trip (German language)

So, the Huns do not need always to be feared off

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Our old navy sub, daphné class, was detected as a trawler in US sonars...

The Obies also manage to 'sink' a few US carriers in their time, and the Dutch, well:

In 1989, naval analyst Norman Polmar wrote in Naval Forces that during NATO s exercise Northern Star, the Dutch submarine Zwaardvis was the only orange (enemy) submarine to successfully stalk and sink a blue (allied) aircraft carrier Ten years later there were reports that the Dutch submarine Walrus had been even more successful in the exercise JTFEX/TMDI99.

During this exercise the Walrus penetrates the U.S. screen and sinks many ships, including the U.S. aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T- shirt. Fittingly, the T-shirt depicted the USS Theodore Roosevelt impaled on the tusks of a walrus. It was also reported that the Walrus also sank many of the Roosevelt's escorts, including the nuclear submarine USS Boise, a cruiser, several destroyers and frigates, plus the command ship USS Mount Whitney. The Walrus herself survived the exercise with no damage.

[Jimbuna]

I'm confident the German submarine will perform extremely well but in real life hostilities I'd expect a submarine would give a good hint to its whereabouts when launching a weapon and as such the battle group would possibly go nuclear (especially if a carrier were hit) which would mean less accuracy would be needed in said retaliatory response.