Are Number of Warships Realistic in Stock Game?

kikanjuu · 09-15-12, 08:44 PM

In Silent Hunter 4 Stock game, are the number of Japanese warshisp, especially destroyeres realistic?

As far as I remember, at the start of the pacific war Japan Navy had around 120 destroyers in total...
I hope in the SH4 stock game, DD does not appear endlessly...

TwoGamers · 09-15-12, 09:46 PM

Yes and no. Say you go to Japan and sink 8 destroyers. Next patrol there will be four less destroyers. If you then sink 2 more destroyers next patrol there will be 3 less the patrol after.At least this is how my game seems to work (I modded it so i can see how many types of ships are in game at the moment)

As for the number being realistic no it's not. It just spawns a number into the game depending on where you are at the moment. If your in Japan it might put 15 destroyers into that grid(s) area.

Hope this helped

Armistead · 09-16-12, 12:08 AM

Nothing really realisitc in numbers. If a group spawns 8 DD's, you could sink them all, lose the group, find it again and they will all be back. Now some mods will eliminate certain ships historically, such as RSRD when the ship was sunk for good, but until then you can sink it as many times as you can find it. For instance, you could sink the Yamato 100 times in game, even though only two existed.

kikanjuu · 09-16-12, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoGamers

Yes and no. Say you go to Japan and sink 8 destroyers. Next patrol there will be four less destroyers. If you then sink 2 more destroyers next patrol there will be 3 less the patrol after.At least this is how my game seems to work (I modded it so i can see how many types of ships are in game at the moment)

As for the number being realistic no it's not. It just spawns a number into the game depending on where you are at the moment. If your in Japan it might put 15 destroyers into that grid(s) area.

Hope this helped

Where to download your mod to show numbers of ships by type?

TorpX · 09-20-12, 11:07 PM

If you want realistic shipping, use RSRDC. It provides the most historical/realistic shipping levels. Stock puts out too many ships (or so I'm told).

TwoGamers · 09-21-12, 01:29 AM

kikanju I mad eit I haven't put it online

Gibus · 09-24-12, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

... Stock puts out too many ships (or so I'm told).

Do not believe everything that is told ....
There is NO mod that depicts each of the IJN ships and making them disappear to when they sank.
Some mods have at least one ship per class, except for DD Kagero, Shimakaze, CL Nagara, Oyodo, Tenryu, Yubari, CVE Hosho, Kaiyo, Ryuho, Ryujo, Chitose after 1943, CV Akagi, Kaga and many others ...
Such work would require months of preparation and would inevitably tarnished error because nobody knows it all.
Some modders have simply copied a similar profile to make a new ship, but this is an illusion.

tater · 10-07-12, 02:53 PM

Not even close to realistic. The stock game has late war DDs at the start of the war, and in a single 1942 time frame there are vastly more DDs at sea that japan had during the entire war (including kaibokan) combined.

The stock campaign is worthless.

TorpX · 10-08-12, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibus

There is NO mod that depicts each of the IJN ships and making them disappear to when they sank.
Some mods have at least one ship per class, except for DD Kagero, Shimakaze, CL Nagara, Oyodo, Tenryu, Yubari, CVE Hosho, Kaiyo, Ryuho, Ryujo, Chitose after 1943, CV Akagi, Kaga and many others ...
Such work would require months of preparation and would inevitably tarnished error because nobody knows it all.
Some modders have simply copied a similar profile to make a new ship, but this is an illusion.

Your points are well taken, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the volume of traffic, than the particular ships. Substituting a similar ship for one not in the game database, or not eliminating one that was sunk at a particular date is one thing, spawning five times as many ships in the game and throwing them out where they would have no rational reason to be, just to make the game more "exciting", is quite another. Some seem to harbor the idea that patrolling in a submarine is very boring if you do not encounter an enemy ship every single day.

tater · 10-08-12, 08:20 AM

The game can't count ships, so there are no limits on how many of a class can be spawned. The trick is to make it so at least too many don't show up in a given group, or ideally patrol for some. It's a fundamental flaw of the game engine that should have been addressed given attacks on capital ships (you sink Yamato, then Musashi, then the next patrol they are back again).

Not as critical for merchants since they are meant to be somewhat generic (hard to model hundreds of different merchants).

Armistead · 10-08-12, 11:18 AM

Torpx, I think you're looking for something like RSRD with more loops and percentages, rather than fixed groups. As you know many complain there is no traffic in RSRD, that is until they figure it out, then you can attack the same groups over and over at will. Have you tried TMO alone?

TorpX · 10-09-12, 11:57 PM

My comments are meant as more of a general observation, than as a personal complaint. I have not yet managed to finish the war, and don't have an encyclopedic memory of battles and campaigns, so RSRDC is ok for me. However, I know some have either read enough, or played enough to know the SH campaign too well, and a randomised campaign would be a great benefit for them, no?

Quote:

Have you tried TMO alone?

No, but if I can ever finish a RFB-RSRDC, I want to try it.

Armistead · 10-10-12, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

My comments are meant as more of a general observation, than as a personal complaint. I have not yet managed to finish the war, and don't have an encyclopedic memory of battles and campaigns, so RSRDC is ok for me. However, I know some have either read enough, or played enough to know the SH campaign too well, and a randomised campaign would be a great benefit for them, no?

No, but if I can ever finish a RFB-RSRDC, I want to try it.

I've played and studied it enough I can pretty much attack any group I want, but since it has so much traffic, often I'll just hunt in locations I don't know as well. However, I have added numerous sub hunter groups, ships and convoys that are more generic and use lots of loops.

TMO was fun for awhile, the convoys zig more, use more speed, loops, percentages, generics, so it changes things up.

Still, attacking a group, regardless of mods can become boring once you learn the AI, so I work more on harder settings. Many of the groups I added aren't historically correct, such as 6 elite escorts guarding one tanker or troopship.

Give TMO a try without RSRD.

Subnuts · 10-10-12, 08:44 PM

Are you currently speaking Japanese, but aren't actually Japanese?

Then, no.

mdewals · 10-11-12, 07:58 AM

wouldn't it be nearly impossible to have a realistic number of ships unless you play an historically correct campaign?

if you, the player sink 1 ship more or 1 ship less, wouldn't that affect the war in some way?

For example, what would happen to Japan if you sink 10 ships more in a single month compared to what really got sunk? Would it make the home front work harder on new ships or would it destroy the morale?

09-15-12, 08:44 PM	#1
kikanjuu Nub Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Are Number of Warships Realistic in Stock Game? In Silent Hunter 4 Stock game, are the number of Japanese warshisp, especially destroyeres realistic? As far as I remember, at the start of the pacific war Japan Navy had around 120 destroyers in total... I hope in the SH4 stock game, DD does not appear endlessly...

09-15-12, 09:46 PM	#2
TwoGamers Officer Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 240 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Yes and no. Say you go to Japan and sink 8 destroyers. Next patrol there will be four less destroyers. If you then sink 2 more destroyers next patrol there will be 3 less the patrol after.At least this is how my game seems to work (I modded it so i can see how many types of ships are in game at the moment) As for the number being realistic no it's not. It just spawns a number into the game depending on where you are at the moment. If your in Japan it might put 15 destroyers into that grid(s) area. Hope this helped Last edited by TwoGamers; 09-15-12 at 09:57 PM.

10-07-12, 02:53 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Not even close to realistic. The stock game has late war DDs at the start of the war, and in a single 1942 time frame there are vastly more DDs at sea that japan had during the entire war (including kaibokan) combined. The stock campaign is worthless. __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

10-08-12, 08:20 AM	#10
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The game can't count ships, so there are no limits on how many of a class can be spawned. The trick is to make it so at least too many don't show up in a given group, or ideally patrol for some. It's a fundamental flaw of the game engine that should have been addressed given attacks on capital ships (you sink Yamato, then Musashi, then the next patrol they are back again). Not as critical for merchants since they are meant to be somewhat generic (hard to model hundreds of different merchants). __________________ "Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

10-08-12, 11:18 AM	#11
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Torpx, I think you're looking for something like RSRD with more loops and percentages, rather than fixed groups. As you know many complain there is no traffic in RSRD, that is until they figure it out, then you can attack the same groups over and over at will. Have you tried TMO alone? Last edited by Armistead; 10-08-12 at 05:54 PM.

09-16-12, 12:08 AM	#3
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Nothing really realisitc in numbers. If a group spawns 8 DD's, you could sink them all, lose the group, find it again and they will all be back. Now some mods will eliminate certain ships historically, such as RSRD when the ship was sunk for good, but until then you can sink it as many times as you can find it. For instance, you could sink the Yamato 100 times in game, even though only two existed.

09-20-12, 11:07 PM	#5
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	If you want realistic shipping, use RSRDC. It provides the most historical/realistic shipping levels. Stock puts out too many ships (or so I'm told).

09-21-12, 01:29 AM	#6
TwoGamers Officer Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 240 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	kikanju I mad eit I haven't put it online

10-10-12, 08:44 PM	#14
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Are you currently speaking Japanese, but aren't actually Japanese? Then, no. __________________ My Amazon.com reviews

10-11-12, 07:58 AM	#15
mdewals Swabbie Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 13 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	wouldn't it be nearly impossible to have a realistic number of ships unless you play an historically correct campaign? if you, the player sink 1 ship more or 1 ship less, wouldn't that affect the war in some way? For example, what would happen to Japan if you sink 10 ships more in a single month compared to what really got sunk? Would it make the home front work harder on new ships or would it destroy the morale?