What is the reason, for a war against Iran ?

[August]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

seriously, your memory is that all of that was just to get rid of one medium-grade dictator?

No Joe, the assertion was that even a small part of the wars objectives accomplished obviously that is not the case. The jerk that made the statement has probably already tried to backtrack. If I could be arsed i'd check but it's too fine a day to sully it by unblocking the spewage of internet trolls.

No Joe, the assertion was that even a small part of the wars objectives accomplished obviously that is not the case.

Poor troll with the intellect of Bubbles, doesn't even comprehend the assertion he failed to deal with.

The jerk that made the statement has probably already tried to backtrack

No you troll try again
You have ignorance and you really have ignorance and August is certainly walking the walk of the ignorant

[Jimbuna]

Come on people....disagreeing and challenging one anothers opinion (in a respectful manner) is acceptable but when matters turn to name calling and trading insults I will have no option other than to draw a line.

[MH]

Come on people....disagreeing and challenging one anothers opinion

He is still just pissed that he got infracted for trolling.

All his points have been challenged dealt with and shredded in detail for what they were, which was easy as they didn't even go anywhere near the mark.
Since he then came back with more total bollox like he often does he gets it straight back like he deserves.
But Ok maybe it was a little unfair to compare him to Bubbles.

Just out of interest, firstly do you understand how the failures in point 4 relates back to the failed objectives from point 1 at national, regional and global levels?
secondly can you do some simple maths and see how far wide of the mark poor august was regarding what he thought he was argueing against?

Ignorance was an entirely accurate summation as his comment on the initial statement can only be due to blind ignorance of history and politics and the second can only be due to plain ignorance

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Iraq - The war was to remove Saddam Hussain from power. That objective was accomplished.

Wrong. They sold it as a case of clear and present danger from WMDs which had to be terminated. "We know they have them and we know where they are." Containing Iran: fail. Stabilising Iraq: fail. Allowing economical advantages for US companies: I cannot assess it in full, but obviously the issue has become far more costly than Cheney and Rumsfield have imagined and planned. But the costs are payed by the tax payer - the profits still get sacked by certain companies. To me, Iraq was a 100% corporation war, a private war that abused the national armed services for private business interests. It was not in the interest or defence of the nation or the American people. Next time Carlylse and Co should send their own plant security police.

In fact the only one in your list that could really be called a failure is Vietnam and that was more through our lack of will to win rather than a lack of ability to win.

Does not matter. It was a deliberate defeat, no matter how it was casue (I blame poltiics). The defeat in Iraq however has caused a much more costly strategic fallout for the US. The straytegic balance between
"them" and "us" has shifted to "our" disadvantage.

I know that no major battle got lost in Vietnam and Iraq. But that is not what decides the war. You can win all battles - and still loose, obviously.

Afghanistan also rates as a defeat. And maybe will turn out to be the most costly, strategically, of the bigger conflicts since WWII. Compared to Iraq and Afghanistan, the defeat in Vietnam was almost meaningless, politically and strategically.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Wrong. They sold it as a case of clear and present danger from WMDs which had to be terminated. "We know they have them and we know where they are." Containing Iran: fail. Stabilising Iraq: fail. Allowing economical advantages for US companies: I cannot assess it in full, but obviously the issue has become far more costly than Cheney and Rumsfield have imagined and planned. But the costs are payed by the tax payer - the profits still get sacked by certain companies. To me, Iraq was a 100% corporation war, a private war that abused the national armed services for private business interests. It was not in the interest or defence of the nation or the American people.

Look Sky, I am not and never did deny that there were multiple war aims in Iraq but one of them was indeed removing Saddam from power. You can debate the relative importance of it all you want but the fact remains that any claims that we didn't accomplish anything in Iraq are just simply untrue. If nothing else we did that.

Apparently though there are some people like the troll and the mad moderator who have some sort of issue with anyone pointing that out but I figure that it's their problem and not mine. I'll let Neal address it.

As for the rest of your post i'm not going to quote it because I hate long posts but let me say that Afghanistan was not even on the list I was responding to, Iran, a war that hasn't even been fought was. Apparently we fought a war with that country and nobody even told us!

Now seriously if a few certain people would get that huge chip off their shoulder maybe they would recognize that, but either way I don't really care what they think. I used to not see why you liked the ignore feature so much but now I understand. I just wish I could block the mad mod like I block the troll. Works better than that Japanese Shut Up Horn.

You can debate the relative importance of it all you want but the fact remains that any claims that we didn't accomplish anything in Iraq are just simply untrue. If nothing else we did that.

Off to see the wizard with a companion of dorothy

Apparently though there are some people like the troll and the mad moderator who have some sort of issue with anyone pointing that out but I figure that it's their problem and not mine.

The issue with it is that it isn't the issue so it isn't pointing anything out.
Since you are not figuring very well then that is clearly a problem you have.

Apparently we fought a war with that country and nobody even told us!

Errrrrr...this bloke that goes by the label August said recently they had been at war with them since 1979. Now I don't know if anyone wants to tell august what august said but it seems august forget to tell august when he was telling everyone else that nonsense.
Perhaps august has august on his ignore list.

Now seriously if a few certain people would get that huge chip off their shoulder maybe they would recognize that,

You have such a chip on your shouder its surprising you don't topple over.

I used to not see why you liked the ignore feature so much but now I understand.

Yes its a good feature, it means people can rip the nonsense you actually wrote to pieces and you just blather on blindly in ignorance.

BTW whats this with the "mad moderator"?
Thats two mods you slagged off lately after going off on one with your chip on your shoulder, last time it was when on a very simple matter your clouded logic which would be best described as infantile in regards to the subject stared to backfire so you ended up shouting even more nonsense and getting in a strop.

[Oberon]

To take a quote from a film:

"The President can bomb anybody he likes."

(points for the film name)

The fact of the matter is that it's up to the Joint Chiefs and their Chairman to decide what nation they bomb, not the UN, not Russia or the PRC, not even Europe.

Will there come a day when a nation turns around and says 'No' and America gets a nasty shock...maybe...eventually every power meets its match in some form. For us it was World War One, for the Romans it was the Visigoths. For the moment though we're just along for the ride. So, getting all riled up and attacking each other and the moderators isn't going to do a thing except make yourselves look silly because at the end of the day we have as much control over the decision making process of the United States as a Snail has over the Sun.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

To take a quote from a film:

"The President can bomb anybody he likes."

(points for the film name)

The fact of the matter is that it's up to the Joint Chiefs and their Chairman to decide what nation they bomb, not the UN, not Russia or the PRC, not even Europe.

Will there come a day when a nation turns around and says 'No' and America gets a nasty shock...maybe...eventually every power meets its match in some form. For us it was World War One, for the Romans it was the Visigoths. For the moment though we're just along for the ride. So, getting all riled up and attacking each other and the moderators isn't going to do a thing except make yourselves look silly because at the end of the day we have as much control over the decision making process of the United States as a Snail has over the Sun.

I'm not attacking the mods Oberon. One single mod here seems to have it out for me as well as other members of this forum and has taken recently to abusing his position in his impotent rqage.

It's no skin off my butt but it's a shame that he's crapping up threads in his zeal to get me. Meh! Maybe Neal will strip him of power then I can go to ignoring his existance like I ignore the irish troll.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Oberon

"The President can bomb anybody he likes."

(points for the film name)

Nixon (Oliver Stone)

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

I'm not attacking the mods Oberon. One single mod here seems to have it out for me as well as other members of this forum and has taken recently to abusing his position in his impotent rqage.

It's no skin off my butt but it's a shame that he's crapping up threads in his zeal to get me. Meh! Maybe Neal will strip him of power then I can go to ignoring his existance like I ignore the irish troll.

The best way to handle things like this is a PM to Neal with evidence of what you think is wrong. Bringing it out into public like this doesn't do anyone any good and just gets peoples backs up. I don't think I've had a problem with any of the mods here...except when Xabba used me as a guinea pig for his infraction powers (he removed the infraction, but it still came as a bloody big shock when I got the PM ), but I understand that not everyone is that way, it's a tough job and we are only human after all. Perhaps both of you need a little time to chill out before any problem escalates? Just agree to disagree, that kinda thing.
Sorry, I'm doing my Kissinger bit here, which brings me to Tak who is spot on! And having watched some clips from the film...I really must watch the full thing, it looks good.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

The best way to handle things like this is a PM to Neal with evidence of what you think is wrong. Bringing it out into public like this doesn't do anyone any good and just gets peoples backs up. I don't think I've had a problem with any of the mods here...except when Xabba used me as a guinea pig for his infraction powers (he removed the infraction, but it still came as a bloody big shock when I got the PM ), but I understand that not everyone is that way, it's a tough job and we are only human after all. Perhaps both of you need a little time to chill out before any problem escalates? Just agree to disagree, that kinda thing.
Sorry, I'm doing my Kissinger bit here, which brings me to Tak who is spot on! And having watched some clips from the film...I really must watch the full thing, it looks good.

Already done. Anf FYI there has been no infraction email. Mas i am drunk!

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Already done. Anf FYI there has been no infraction email. Mas i am drunk!

Well, enjoy the rest of your night, and put the coffee, eggs and bacon to one side for the morning

Had a guest crash out on the sofa in reception the other night, he must have had a heavy night he had pen all over the side of his face, probably from a 'friend'...

The things ya see

then I can go to ignoring his existance like I ignore the irish troll.

So by "ignore" you must mean frequently just jumping into any old thread and regardless of what the topic is or what has been posted in that thread simply going into a rant of personal attacks

Poor August, his own actions show him for what he is

One single mod here seems to have it out for me as well as other members of this forum and has taken recently to abusing his position in his impotent rqage.

Ah so its just the "you don't know nuffin bout nuffin so STFU" highly intelligent posts a couple of people recently made when their logic function went into meltdown over very simple things.
Yes I can see why you are still a little sore over that, the two "military experts" using that lame excuse of an arguement did end up looking very very silly which must add to the already weighty chip on the shoulder