NY bus accused of sex discrimination

[Jimbuna]

Looking like a game of chess......people!!

So you could ask stupid questions?

It is a sensible question, its just that you don't like the answer.
But its OK I know you get all bunkery over segregated buses and shops and the "modesty police"...hey sounds like mecca don't it

Would it make you feel better if they switch around and put curtain in middle of bus?

If the men were made to go in the back and didn't object it would prove me wrong wouldn't it. It would also demonstrate that you are correct in your rather ludicrous "segregation not lesser treatment" line.
It would be better if they kept it in temple and the home and didn't try and impose it on public transport where such discrimination is clearly illegal.

[vienna]

Questions not answered in the BBC story:

1. Does the bus service get any federal, state, or local funding or subsidies? If it does, then the practice is illegal and unconstitutional;

2. Does the bus line only serve a particular population, i.e., it does not pick up members of the public at large at regular bus stops but only provides service by subscription, for example. If it doesn't, then the practice is illegal and unconstitutional;

Religious or other factors do not apply as an exemption if the line is public and/or sudsidized by tax dollars or open to the general public...

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It would be better if they kept it in temple and the home and didn't try and impose it on public transport where such discrimination is clearly illegal.

Yes it would be better.
It is the case with most orthodox Jews besides the hardcore ones.
Many orthodox Rabbis don't like the bus segregation and view it as unnecessary but there are always the hardcore zombies.

In Jerusalem you can easily ride a bus with orthodox and lite dressed women mixed together.
At rear occasions one can be asked politely to change seat to be next to a man so that woman can be next to women.
You can respect that or tell them to bugger off which happens sometimes as well.

There are also some kosher zombie lines that try to enforce the segregation mainly between strictly hardcore places...dumb as it may be.

Orthodox can be nuisance but don't have horns.

There are also some kosher zombie lines that try to enforce the segregation mainly between strictly hardcore places...dumb as it may be.

Illegal as it may be is the more accurate phrase.
Are not some of these "zombie lines" up for contempt of court for refusing to allow segregation to be "voluntary" and for refusing to post the notices that any attempts at forced segregation on their public buses are illegal?

Orthodox can be nuisance but don't have horns.

Some Orthodox can be a nuisance. You can't paint them all the same,that would be too orthodox

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Illegal as it may be is the more accurate phrase.
Are not some of these "zombie lines" up for contempt of court for refusing to allow segregation to be "voluntary" and for refusing to post the notices that any attempts at forced segregation on their public buses are illegal?

Its on voluntary base but since 99% of time the passengers are hardcore orthodox then its besides the point.
Its a case of status quo-they do their stuff in religious neighborhoods and secular in their own.
That's Jerusalem.....

NYC is different case.
As the NYC mayor put it-They can buy their own buses.

I simply hate how those things turn in to Jews do this... do that issue... because of ww2... blah ...blah.
If anyone can turn those anti Zionists into scientist and doctors ill be glad to know how it can be done.

Its on voluntary base but since 99% of time the passengers are hardcore orthodox then its besides the point.

It is supposed to be on a voluntary basis, the court cases have arisen because some of the orthodox and some of the buses won't accept voluntary segregation, they want it as enforced segregation.

Its a case of status quo-they do their stuff in religious neighborhoods and secular in their own.

Are you saying its an apartheid State?

NYC is different case.
As the NYC mayor put it-They can buy their own buses.

Actually its the same, in both cases the problem is that they are running a public bus service, it doesn't matter who owns the vehicles it only matters what they are operating them as.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Are you saying its an apartheid State?
.

No i said that in Jerusalem we live as as we chose.
There are closed places where you cant drive car on shabbat and places where you can party all night.

No i said that in Jerusalem we live as as we chose.

Freedom of choice eh. Bit of a bugger if you have different views from the people down the road though.
We have been through this before with you denying that the religious extremists burn down business premesis outside "their" neighbourhoods(which itself is funny as starting a fire on Shabbat is supposed to be a no no)

There are closed places where you cant drive car on shabbat and places where you can party all night.

Yet the violent nuts come out of Mea Shearim and Guela and attack people and property in other neighbourhoods for not following their religious views, indeed they attack the police for trying to enforce the natons laws because in their apartheid view their little pure state is above Israel and its laws.
But hey observance of religious laws are voluntary ain't they, just like segregation on the buses

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by vienna

Questions not answered in the BBC story:

1. Does the bus service get any federal, state, or local funding or subsidies? If it does, then the practice is illegal and unconstitutional;

2. Does the bus line only serve a particular population, i.e., it does not pick up members of the public at large at regular bus stops but only provides service by subscription, for example. If it doesn't, then the practice is illegal and unconstitutional;

Religious or other factors do not apply as an exemption if the line is public and/or sudsidized by tax dollars or open to the general public...

It is a privately CONTRACTED bus by the city - which pays the contract from the public coffer - so it is recieving public funds, one way or the other.

As the bus is "public" - it would serve the public at large. As a public transportation vehicle, it would be illegal to refuse to pick up a member of the general public based on them not being part of a "specific population" group.

If this is happening - the bus contractor has stepped in the cowpie.

[Penguin]

In my opinion the signs in those busses are illegal, but it will not be easy to blame the bus company, as the passengers insisted on the change of seats. The driver could be blamed for not enforcing anti-discrimination laws by not having taken action.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

It is a privately CONTRACTED bus by the city - which pays the contract from the public coffer - so it is recieving public funds, one way or the other.

The original article, linked in the BBC article, stated that the bus company is not a contractor but a franchise taker, which pays the city for the license to operate the line.
However it still falls under the MTA authority and thus is bound to their laws which forbid segregation.

Originally Posted by MH

In Jerusalem you can easily ride a bus with orthodox and lite dressed women mixed together.
At rear occasions one can be asked politely to change seat to be next to a man so that woman can be next to women.
You can respect that or tell them to bugger off which happens sometimes as well.

As someone who traditionally likes to ride in the back, I have a question: What would happen if I sat in the back, would the women insist on a seat change, would the males regard me as a traitor? Or would they just see me as a weird tourist guy?

Originally Posted by MH

NYC is different case.
As the NYC mayor put it-They can buy their own buses.

Yep, or just buy the women a cab ride, where they sit in the back

Originally Posted by MH

I simply hate how those things turn in to Jews do this... do that issue... because of ww2... blah ...blah.
If anyone can turn those anti Zionists into scientist and doctors ill be glad to know how it can be done.

It's the same we see in all the other threads, e.g. the Tea Party/Occupy thing: blame them all for some goofballs in their rows.

Btw: I am a former anti-zionist, who will hold a scientific degree (hopefully) soon.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Freedom of choice eh. Bit of a bugger if you have different views from the people down the road though.
We have been through this before with you denying that the religious extremists burn down business premesis outside "their" neighbourhoods(which itself is funny as starting a fire on Shabbat is supposed to be a no no)

I cant remember business burning in last 10 years.
There are pubs and restaurants opened on shabbat in Jerusalem.
The catch is that those restaurants will not have kosher certificate from rabbinate...
It seems its good for the business anyway.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yet the violent nuts come out of Mea Shearim and Guela and attack people and property in other neighbourhoods for not following their religious views, indeed they attack the police for trying to enforce the natons laws because in their apartheid view their little pure state is above Israel and its laws.
But hey observance of religious laws are voluntary ain't they, just like segregation on the buses

Sometime some hardcore Ultra orthodox Jews come out of their hoods and do some mess over various stupid issues.
Throwing diapers and burning trashcans while calling police nazis-yep holy jihad takes over Jerusalem..you win....



Orthodox are troublesome and complex issue for Israelis but not for any of the reasons you brought about.
Wish it was the greatest of problems here.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

No, no....I'd better not.

*must behave*

ZIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED UNDER ZE THIRD REICH!
ok, ok very poor taste i know - sorry.
Im not good at PCness.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Penguin

As someone who traditionally likes to ride in the back, I have a question: What would happen if I sat in the back, would the women insist on a seat change, would the males regard me as a traitor? Or would they just see me as a weird tourist guy?

I have never been on those super ultra kosher buses so i cant say- have no business there and no reason for that.
all i can say that if you sat next to woman she would probably run for her life and take on acceptable distance from you...
You could be asked to to change seat then situation might escalate into name calling if you don't follow the rules.
My religious friend had an issue like that when he took front seat together with his wife on ultra kosher bus.
He said it was unpleasant and idiotic situation.
He made his way on the bus by mistake having no practical idea about them.
In his view ultra orthodoxy's modesty concepts are totally out of context.
Actually all this bus separation is relatively new concept-some attribute it the fact that non religious undress themselves lately too much therefore its getting difficult for modesty observant ultra orthodox to deal with this progress.

Originally Posted by Penguin

Btw: I am a former anti-zionist, who will hold a scientific degree (hopefully) soon.

That's cool.
You have taken a tight turn in life...to the dark side lol.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by JU_88

ZIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED UNDER ZE THIRD REICH!
ok, ok very poor taste i know - sorry.
Im not good at PCness.

LOL

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