Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Jungman

It is not one number, it is a group, that is why you must manual hex edit them. TT tool wil not work.

and? don't stop now your on a roll---

[Col7777]

Gouldjg,

We must be thinking alike a little, I know we want to sort this out but I too was wondering why/if things could be added to the sim.cfg may be later perhaps.

[Krupp]

The last thing we need is another never-ending thread such as the 8km visibility thread...

Hmmm? This is quite awkward comment in public forum, even tho every one has a right to say what they want. Does it hurt someone to have long threads?

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Personally, I have been following this topic with great interest. I can't do much else than give for these guys. It would be important for the game to have features they are after.

[gouldjg]

Originally Posted by Redwine

True, if this sensor is modellated and is hidden in another place, it can explains why they blast me out of water with my active sensor with a only 3* beam.

May be the explanation for the sailor with his head into the water looking for me .......... :hmm:

I may just write all the sensors to the sim.cfg and hope for good luck.

I know it states that if sensitivety is 0 refer to cfg.

Well what about all the other settings i.e. noise, wave etc etc?.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Maybe, Just Maybe,

The crew ratings controls the other settings by adding and subtracting modifiers,

Then maybe, just maybe

We delete all crew ratings, thus this gives us 0 modifiers, we then add individual sensors to sim.cfg and set tweaks.

A really really wild shot :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Redwine]

After set the long hexe number into sensivity in AI-Sensors.dat all to zeros, and remove all back-up files from the folder :

now my DDs become completely deaf.

They can not hear me even at flank speed around them, submerged at periscope or crash dive depth.

They only can spot visually my periscope and shoot it visualy.

This means this number works after all, now we need to discover and know how to adjust a playable value there.

We need to know what is this

sensitivity = 00000000000400000064000000420000001611FA

Originally Posted by Krupp

Personally, I have been following this topic with great interest. I can't do much else than give for these guys. It would be important for the game to have features they are after.

Thanks, stay here with us.....

[gouldjg]

Redwine

I am wondering if crew rating affects sensitivety hence the different numbers.

The one BIG BIG BIG problem, is the fact we can only guess what crew rating does.

I have yet to find anything apart from the airbase modifiers that could give any significant proof or evidence to what exactly they do.


Maybe Jungmann can explain some more concerning the actual numbers.

[CB..]

We must be thinking alike a little, I know we want to sort this out but I too was wondering why/if things could be added to the sim.cfg may be later perhaps.

kudos to Col definitely many thanks Col!! as ever you have the knack of finding ways to get round stubborn problems with a deft stroke of the imagination!! :|\



by removing some of the sim.cfg entrys and keeping others it makes controling and exploiting the uber hydrophone effect a very flexible system---that is consistent mission by mission--most importantly-- (everything else i and others have tried has worked wll in one mission - but been absolutely useless in the next making it all worthless for genuine gameplay and any campaign/career use)

i 'm running a test patrol ( i edited the happy days mission to 1942 and removed all the shipping just leaving the player sub-- so i could in effect just play a campaign patrol with the benifits of allready being in a reasonable patrol zone at mission start-- this means i can hit time excell and within a couple of minutes get a report on a convoy some where within range --this means i get different convoys depending on the normal campaign randomisations-- making the tests more relevant to normal campaign style play- im getting too lazy to start a new career each time i test something lol so this method is the next best thing -- allso makes a hugely dynamic and randomised single mission --i reccomend it for a semi campaign style mission without the long drawn out travelling to and fro the patrol zone--kind of half way house mission--)

by accident i forgot to set my settings in the sim.cfg to the ones i was meaning to try from last nights posts and ran the mission with these settings instead

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=60 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Speed factor=10 ;[kt]


as you say these are the only entrys for the hydrophone section -- the rest are defaulted to the uber no sim/cfg effect


wonderfull stuff really --given all the struggle i've been thru tweaking this messing with that - here i have (for me anyway) a good solid and most importantly RELIABLE way of tweaking the DD's sensors--

and finally i'm getting good solid GAMEPLAY as a result--

with the above hydrophone settings
i negated the long range uber phones effect and was able to reach the convoy without being detected submerged at silent--

only when i was lining up on a merchant did i get detected -- and the pinging started lol--
and the great part for me about this was the way the DD's kept attacking - losing me then detecting me again - allmost as if they were waiting for me to try to reach scope depth for a torpedo attack then springing on me--

in about an hours play i only got the we have been detected message three times--the DD's pinged around in an effective search pattern
and made it very risky to try to get the merchants--and as is becomeing usual with this great cfg method - the difficulty slowly rises as time goes by-- as other DD's begin to come over to help --once they start forming the circle around me and sitting at dead stop scanning with their phones it gets more and more dangerous---till finally they close the net around me and if i'm still daft enough to be trying to sink the merchants instead of getting the heck out of there- well i'm in for a pasting

nice one Col!! this is the one for me---wonderfull gameplay and DD behaviuor-- with lots of scope for experimentation--

I highly reccomended this method of tweaking for those people who like me have allways suffered from useless DD's--it gives the DD's uber hydrophones and allows to control the cirumstances in which they can use them -- a hugely flexible system--it allows me to follow my rule of thumb ball park idea that the best gameplay will result from uber hydrophones and crap sonar for the DD's (if you stuck with useless DD's as a norm- not uber pin pointers as others experience-- that's a different problem and not one i have ever suffered with )

i'll go back and see how the rest of the mission pans out later on ( it's night time in the game and it play havoc with my eyes playing night time missions during real world daylight!! i end up going cross eyed trying to see what's going on ! givng my self a head-ache in the process)

[Col7777]

Well just out of curiosity and why not, I tried something else. This time I renamed SH3Sim (clut) file, the game loaded Ok and I played 2 missions.
The first was U505, I was able to get close to the carrier and fire off a couple of torp's without being detected, I was travelling at 6knts at peri depth, the DD's totally ignored me.
The next was the Barnham mission, again I did the same, this time a DD came withing 300mts from me, I went red as he passed then back to green again. I was then able to get close to the BB and destroy it, and the DD's never came to investigate.

This just shows the opposite effect from the other way I tried it earlier, I know we don't want this at all but it may prove of interest to this topic.

[Redwine]

@ CB :

Happy for you ...... but i dont understand waht are strange in that you had done to obtain a good behavior, only the hydrophones settings ?

Did you tryed the U-505 mission ? I have good gameplay in some mission too, but when go to U-505, they are Ubber DDs.

Please try U-505 and comment, you have now a good game play into a determined mission...OK , but what happens when fight against those Ubbers DDs ?

Please can you upload at rapidshare you files to test ?


@ Cool7777 :

Same behavior happens to me if i attempt to reduce the Ubber guys at U-505.



Now i will try this :

Sensivity at AI-Sensors.dat was :

sensitivity = 00000000000400000064000000420000001611FA

looks as a secuence of numbers, the first is 00000000 it is zero, the second is

00040000 really i dont know if this must to be readed from left to right or from right to left, but seems to be the second number into the secuence.

I adjust now......... as a shot in the dark of course :rotfl:

sensitivity = 0004000000040000000400000004000000040000

[Kaleunt]

About the sonars, the Q type possess in all ways the sames characteristics
as the type 147A or 123A you can observe that in the AI_sensors.dat
But when you open the sns.cfg files in the Sea folder and compare US
and British destroyers you will see that the Q sonar is used exclusively
by US and the differents numbered Type sonars (123A 128A etc...) are used exclusively by the British. The sonars in SHIII are not modelled as their real life counterparts but as generics sonars mixing the 3 type of sonars shown in the above graphics. It is the same for the radars, the game doesn't make any difference between airsearch and surface search radars. The differents types of sensors come in succession in each ship
equipment in way reflecting their evolution as long as the war progress.
Exemple a Flower Corvette begin the war with a 123A sonar and end the war with a 147A sonar, the only differences in game between these sonars are their range and sensitivity.
Why this simplification because each sensors is tied to a particular node
of their 3D model. Each 3D model possess only one node per sensor
H for hydrophone, N for Sonar, R for radar. Each node possess precise coordinates related to the position on their 3D model. For the Flower
the hydrophone and sonar nodes are H01 and N01,they share the same position, so tey are situated at X=7,977465-E5, Y=-0,41818246 and
Z=1,8232497 from the center of the 3D model.
You can't add others sensors without creating more nodesand allocating them to a 3D model.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Redwine

@ CB :

Happy for you ...... but i dont understand waht are strange in that you had done to obtain a good behavior, only the hydrophones settings ?

Did you tryed the U-505 mission ? I have good gameplay in some mission too, but when go to U-505, they are Ubber DDs.

Please try U-505 and comment, you have now a good game play into a determined mission...OK , but what happens when fight against those Ubbers DDs ?

Please can you upload at rapidshare you files to test ?


@ Cool7777 :

Same behavior happens to me if i attempt to reduce the Ubber guys at U-505.

ill give the 505 mission a try -tho in terms of gameplay i don't expect to surive that mission-- going up against DD's with hedgehogs in such a disadvantaged position is suicidal from a gameplay point of view!!

no point me sending you the files as theyre isn't really anything to send--!!

my AI_sensors.dat is basically stock

tho i did change the hydrophone sensitivity to this in TT anazler

sensitivity=00000000000000000000000000000000000000 00


and the only other changes are the sim.cfg stuff
i've even restored the crewrating entrys in the campaign .rnd

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Kaleunt

About the sonars, the Q type possess in all ways the sames characteristics
as the type 147A or 123A you can observe that in the AI_sensors.dat
But when you open the sns.cfg files in the Sea folder and compare US
and British destroyers you will see that the Q sonar is used exclusively
by US and the differents numbered Type sonars (123A 128A etc...) are used exclusively by the British. The sonars in SHIII are not modelled as their real life counterparts but as generics sonars mixing the 3 type of sonars shown in the above graphics. It is the same for the radars, the game doesn't make any difference between airsearch and surface search radars. The differents types of sensors come in succession in each ship
equipment in way reflecting their evolution as long as the war progress.
Exemple a Flower Corvette begin the war with a 123A sonar and end the war with a 147A sonar, the only differences in game between these sonars are their range and sensitivity.
Why this simplification because each sensors is tied to a particular node
of their 3D model. Each 3D model possess only one node per sensor
H for hydrophone, N for Sonar, R for radar. Each node possess precise coordinates related to the position on their 3D model. For the Flower
the hydrophone and sonar nodes are H01 and N01,they share the same position, so tey are situated at X=7,977465-E5, Y=-0,41818246 and
Z=1,8232497 from the center of the 3D model.
You can't add others sensors without creating more nodesand allocating them to a 3D model.

Lot of thanks for info Kaleunt, very interesting and usefull.

The matter is we had tweaked those american sensors but they still Ubber. Tweaking these sensor o not have reaction in the game.

American DDs still prey on you as rabid dogs......

Brithish DDs are more gentleman.... :rotfl: 3 or 4 passed and they stops and go to drink a cup tea.

[Col7777]

CB,

In the U505 mission, I moved the player sub a bit further away to give myself a chance, I still got detected but it was fun trying to evade.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by CB..

ill give the 505 mission a try -tho in terms of gameplay i don't expect to surive that mission-- going up against DD's with hedgehogs in such a disadvantaged position is suicidal from a gameplay point of view!!

Not agree with that at all, historical survive probabilities are 2 of 3 against those dangerous later war time DDs.

I read many times a depth charge attack had between 1 to 3% of succesful probabilities at early war times, it was increased in later war times up to 30 to 40% according diferent sources.

You must to have 2/3 of survive probabilities at later times.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Redwine

Not agree with that at all, historical survive probabilities are 2 of 3 against those dangerous later war time DDs.

I read many times a depth charge attack had between 1 to 3% of succesful probabilities at early war times, it was increased in later war times up to 30 to 40% according diferent sources.

You must to have 2/3 of survive probabilities at later times.

Ok understood
i guesse it's just the way i role-play the game--
i play as my-self really and always aviod risks if at all possible--
if it was real in any way i would probably give up on the attack the instant i was detected against such a difficult and well defended target

i'll do as Col suggests and set my self out side detection range at the start of the mission so i can gauge just how difficult it is to avoid detection--