[WIP] IRAI (Intelligent Random AI) - Page 100

Alians2004 · 07-07-11, 06:39 PM

IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith

TheDarkWraith · 07-07-11, 07:52 PM

I have no control over the AI's collision avoidance routines. Those are hard coded.

Alians2004 · 07-12-11, 08:31 AM

Could you tell me, if it is normal, when I come in an enemy port (at periscope depth) and begin attack enemy ships, they do nothing (they could though run engines and try escape from me).
Only escorts notice me, but rarely attack me. What can be done that this escorts annoy me until the last.
Thanks.

PL_Andrev · 07-15-11, 10:54 AM

It is normal.
The ships docked at port are "permanently" docked.
It is stupid - I know.

Targor Avelany · 07-24-11, 12:17 AM

Any update on this, TDW? any particular tests that still need to be run?

vlad29 · 08-11-11, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Any update on this, TDW? any particular tests that still need to be run?

Interesting question

If to look at mod lists of guys in other threads seems that nobody now is testing it. Everybody are using IRAI 0.0.30. May be the new edited mods that need restarting the campaign cause this matter? Let's continue testing

fromhell · 08-16-11, 04:20 PM

i like hunting around near gibralter and i run into a hell of a lot of aircraft, but none have ever attacked me, is this normal?
thanks for a great mod
one other thing, is there anyway you or i can reduce the number of taskforces in game, it is abit to much
thanks

mia389 · 08-16-11, 05:31 PM

I am not using v1.0 because it says thins

Quote:

Test version of v1.0.0. This test version will allow you to test the single unit AI only. If you try to use this test version with any kind of ship convoys it will fail miserably

I am in 41 and all I see are convoys. I would use it if earlier in career though.

fromhell · 08-17-11, 02:40 AM

laugh i almost cried, decided to make atrip into the atlantic for a change and got attacked by an aircraft, caused so much damage i had to limp back to port.

fromhell · 08-17-11, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mia389

I am not using v1.0 because it says thins

I am in 41 and all I see are convoys. I would use it if earlier in career though.

mia389, where do you go fishing, to see convoys, tell me and ill go there, i find them very hard to find.

zeus · 08-19-11, 12:51 AM

Hello!!

A question:

how is the project "IRAI 1.0.0 TDW"?

THE_MASK · 08-20-11, 05:32 AM

is it possible to add to a cfg file .
Say the sensors cfg file as an example .
;Submarine player sensors detection parameters
Say add a line to the ;Hydrophone
such as
Enemy surface factor=50.0 ;[m2]

0rpheus · 08-24-11, 05:48 PM

Is there anything left to test on this? Happy to help out if so.

I suppose convoys are the last big thing left to do.. currently with IRAI I've had some nightmare scenarios involving convoys in heavily patrolled areas, on one occasion having over 30 (!) Heavy Cruisers, DDs and Battleships circling me after an attack as any passing military convoys have gotten stuck in as well! Somewhat over the top methinks!

I'd be interested to know how the difficulty settings really work, as well. Currently if I attack a military convoy, they ALWAYS know exactly where I am, regardless of silent running, 170m depth and 1knot speed. Even with engines off they still 'see' me. It's getting to the point that it's not worth attacking a convoy of military craft as you've basically no chance whatsoever of escape.

I've tweaked the difficulty settings to match Sober's, but still get crucified if I even sneeze in a DDs direction. I'm not expecting to attack and slip away unnoticed, but surely there must be a way to tweak the values so there's at least a chance of being unheard at 170m, 1knot and silent running (which is the lowest/slowest possible afaik).

Also, I assume that if I'm very deep, silent and go all stop, I shouldn't be visible on their active sonar (too deep) and 99% invisible on passive sonar. I expect them to DC the last known position pretty heavily, but I've seen them do it for upwards of 24hrs plus! I thought 'playing possum' and stopping deep & silent was a fairly common uboat tactic... but it doesn't seem to work!

Suggestions?

Stormfly · 08-24-11, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0rpheus

Is there anything left to test on this? Happy to help out if so.

I suppose convoys are the last big thing left to do.. currently with IRAI I've had some nightmare scenarios involving convoys in heavily patrolled areas, on one occasion having over 30 (!) Heavy Cruisers, DDs and Battleships circling me after an attack as any passing military convoys have gotten stuck in as well! Somewhat over the top methinks!

I'd be interested to know how the difficulty settings really work, as well. Currently if I attack a military convoy, they ALWAYS know exactly where I am, regardless of silent running, 170m depth and 1knot speed. Even with engines off they still 'see' me. It's getting to the point that it's not worth attacking a convoy of military craft as you've basically no chance whatsoever of escape.

I've tweaked the difficulty settings to match Sober's, but still get crucified if I even sneeze in a DDs direction. I'm not expecting to attack and slip away unnoticed, but surely there must be a way to tweak the values so there's at least a chance of being unheard at 170m, 1knot and silent running (which is the lowest/slowest possible afaik).

Also, I assume that if I'm very deep, silent and go all stop, I shouldn't be visible on their active sonar (too deep) and 99% invisible on passive sonar. I expect them to DC the last known position pretty heavily, but I've seen them do it for upwards of 24hrs plus! I thought 'playing possum' and stopping deep & silent was a fairly common uboat tactic... but it doesn't seem to work!

Suggestions?

i use the same difficulty settings as Sober, and sometimes it is realy hard to escape as it was in reality, but over the time you learn your stuff...

say, which year you`re testing this, i did till end '42...

one remark:
"Also, I assume that if I'm very deep, silent and go all stop, I shouldn't be visible on their active sonar (too deep) and 99% invisible on passive sonar."

you assume wrong, the active sonar is reduced effective or unable to hit your sub if:

- you are out of detection range.
- You are horizontaly out of detection area.
- your are verticaly out of detection area because you are deep enough and the escort pinging you is close enough.
- your sub`s profile is small enough and far enough away.
- your hull`s skin is made of some secret materials.
- enemys sonar crew is unskilled or tired.
- type of enemy vessel and equipment.

...in your case and reason nr. 3 above means the active sonar beam have a limited down angle operating, which means, you may slip into it`s blind area if you`re deep enough and the escoprt is close enough.

The Problem begins here if they hunt you in a coordinated group, means one escort keep enough distanace, just for pinging you while you are deep and radio your position for other escorts dept charging you. It could also be, that 2 or 3 escorts do a cross ping job to direct some nice charges directly over your pos, before and after you.

also if youre a smart Kaleun, and they barly can ping/hear you, they try to wake you using large carpet dept charging tactics, then you just need the nerves to take some damage till they give up or run out of charges while presenting a very bad solution for them.

0rpheus · 08-24-11, 10:59 PM

Thanks for the reply Stormfly. I guess in terms of year we're talking no later than '42, as the farthest I've got so far is the second Mediterranean campaign.

Everything I know about Silent Hunter AI I know from SH4. This post, courtesy of Ducimus explains how the active sonar works in 3/4 and is what I base my questions on: http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

I'm assuming that things are the same in SH5 (if they're not then all my reasoning is flawed lol) - that is to say, below a certain depth active sonar is no use as you're too low for the ping to reflect from the boat. And like you said, you have to be vertically below the active sonar's area of effect and presenting as little aspect as possible. That much I understand.

Now in SH5, on the TAI the enemy active sonar is represented by the red cone, and passive by the yellowish circle. The lower you go, the smaller the red cone gets, until it disappears entirely. It's at this point that I would expect enemy active sonar to be useless, and for them to switch to the passive - which, if I'm doing one knot, at say 160 metres should make me damn hard to hear.

But in practice I'm not seeing this. Below Active Sonar depth, at one knot, 160m depth & silent running, they still ping and still follow me around like hawks, sometimes literally for 24+ hours - even though none display active sonar cones. So how are they detecting me? Is it solely on passive sonar and even at that depth/speed I'm still audible? Going any deeper is awkward as the sub won't keep depth past 170metres at 1 or even 2 knots (for some reason I don't understand, even though the hull is safe a little lower than that), and going all stop for any length of time often leads to me being crushed by the hull of a ship killed by collision while trying to DC me.

The carpet-charging tactics I could understand, and probably figure enough out from the TAI and DC pattern to know that's what was going on.. it's when they literally follow me like hawks at the lowest possible depth & speed, when their active is (theoretically) useless that's making me scratch my head... especially if playing possum doesn't/can't work.

What about thermal layers? I've never heard anyone mention it for 5, but it was often a key factor in SH4.

07-15-11, 10:54 AM	#1489
PL_Andrev Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 995 Downloads: 91 Uploads: 0	It is normal. The ships docked at port are "permanently" docked. It is stupid - I know. __________________

07-07-11, 06:39 PM	#1486
Alians2004 Nub Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Russia Posts: 3 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith

07-07-11, 07:52 PM	#1487
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	I have no control over the AI's collision avoidance routines. Those are hard coded.

07-12-11, 08:31 AM	#1488
Alians2004 Nub Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Russia Posts: 3 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Could you tell me, if it is normal, when I come in an enemy port (at periscope depth) and begin attack enemy ships, they do nothing (they could though run engines and try escape from me). Only escorts notice me, but rarely attack me. What can be done that this escorts annoy me until the last. Thanks.

07-24-11, 12:17 AM	#1490
Targor Avelany Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 1,183 Downloads: 225 Uploads: 0	Any update on this, TDW? any particular tests that still need to be run?

08-16-11, 04:20 PM	#1492
fromhell Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: the deep Posts: 251 Downloads: 217 Uploads: 7	i like hunting around near gibralter and i run into a hell of a lot of aircraft, but none have ever attacked me, is this normal? thanks for a great mod one other thing, is there anyway you or i can reduce the number of taskforces in game, it is abit to much thanks

08-17-11, 02:40 AM	#1494
fromhell Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: the deep Posts: 251 Downloads: 217 Uploads: 7	laugh i almost cried, decided to make atrip into the atlantic for a change and got attacked by an aircraft, caused so much damage i had to limp back to port.

08-19-11, 12:51 AM	#1496
zeus Lieutenant Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 267 Downloads: 971 Uploads: 0	Hello!! A question: how is the project "IRAI 1.0.0 TDW"?

08-20-11, 05:32 AM	#1497
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	is it possible to add to a cfg file . Say the sensors cfg file as an example . ;Submarine player sensors detection parameters Say add a line to the ;Hydrophone such as Enemy surface factor=50.0 ;[m2]

08-24-11, 05:48 PM	#1498
0rpheus Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: UK Posts: 857 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 3	Is there anything left to test on this? Happy to help out if so. I suppose convoys are the last big thing left to do.. currently with IRAI I've had some nightmare scenarios involving convoys in heavily patrolled areas, on one occasion having over 30 (!) Heavy Cruisers, DDs and Battleships circling me after an attack as any passing military convoys have gotten stuck in as well! Somewhat over the top methinks! I'd be interested to know how the difficulty settings really work, as well. Currently if I attack a military convoy, they ALWAYS know exactly where I am, regardless of silent running, 170m depth and 1knot speed. Even with engines off they still 'see' me. It's getting to the point that it's not worth attacking a convoy of military craft as you've basically no chance whatsoever of escape. I've tweaked the difficulty settings to match Sober's, but still get crucified if I even sneeze in a DDs direction. I'm not expecting to attack and slip away unnoticed, but surely there must be a way to tweak the values so there's at least a chance of being unheard at 170m, 1knot and silent running (which is the lowest/slowest possible afaik). Also, I assume that if I'm very deep, silent and go all stop, I shouldn't be visible on their active sonar (too deep) and 99% invisible on passive sonar. I expect them to DC the last known position pretty heavily, but I've seen them do it for upwards of 24hrs plus! I thought 'playing possum' and stopping deep & silent was a fairly common uboat tactic... but it doesn't seem to work! Suggestions?

08-24-11, 10:59 PM	#1500
0rpheus Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: UK Posts: 857 Downloads: 87 Uploads: 3	Thanks for the reply Stormfly. I guess in terms of year we're talking no later than '42, as the farthest I've got so far is the second Mediterranean campaign. Everything I know about Silent Hunter AI I know from SH4. This post, courtesy of Ducimus explains how the active sonar works in 3/4 and is what I base my questions on: http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm I'm assuming that things are the same in SH5 (if they're not then all my reasoning is flawed lol) - that is to say, below a certain depth active sonar is no use as you're too low for the ping to reflect from the boat. And like you said, you have to be vertically below the active sonar's area of effect and presenting as little aspect as possible. That much I understand. Now in SH5, on the TAI the enemy active sonar is represented by the red cone, and passive by the yellowish circle. The lower you go, the smaller the red cone gets, until it disappears entirely. It's at this point that I would expect enemy active sonar to be useless, and for them to switch to the passive - which, if I'm doing one knot, at say 160 metres should make me damn hard to hear. But in practice I'm not seeing this. Below Active Sonar depth, at one knot, 160m depth & silent running, they still ping and still follow me around like hawks, sometimes literally for 24+ hours - even though none display active sonar cones. So how are they detecting me? Is it solely on passive sonar and even at that depth/speed I'm still audible? Going any deeper is awkward as the sub won't keep depth past 170metres at 1 or even 2 knots (for some reason I don't understand, even though the hull is safe a little lower than that), and going all stop for any length of time often leads to me being crushed by the hull of a ship killed by collision while trying to DC me. The carpet-charging tactics I could understand, and probably figure enough out from the TAI and DC pattern to know that's what was going on.. it's when they literally follow me like hawks at the lowest possible depth & speed, when their active is (theoretically) useless that's making me scratch my head... especially if playing possum doesn't/can't work. What about thermal layers? I've never heard anyone mention it for 5, but it was often a key factor in SH4.